Can Podcast Editors Quit Social Media? – PEM0045

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:00

Welcome to the podcast editors mastermind.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:02

This is episode 45 and I'm Brian.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:04

I'm just popping in for a second to let you know that in this episode, we're going to be talking about social media, some of the things that are good about it, some of the things that are not so good about it, how it can serve podcast editors and what can happen when a podcast editor leaves social media or leaves Facebook, we're going to be joined by Chris Curran.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:21

We'll share a little bit more about him in a second.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:24

I just wanted to let you know that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:26

We are really trying to double down this year on our live experience on what happens with the group when we stream live.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:33

And we'd really love to see you there.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:34

If you can join us, we stream live every other Thursday at 9:05 PM Eastern, and we'd love to see you there because we're really trying to build a community, really trying to build relationships and really trying to put our focus.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:45

We're glad to put this podcast out.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:46

We want you to be able to listen wherever you are, but if you're able to join us, we'd really love to see you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:51

That's at facebook.com/podcast editors mastermind.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:54

And with that, we're going to get right into it.

Show Opening: 00:01:00

How

Show Opening: 00:01:00

much is that?

Show Opening: 00:01:04

Um,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:14

welcome to the podcast.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:16

Editors mastermind.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:17

If you're joining us live, we are super glad to have you here.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:20

We would love to have your comments, your questions, your silly limericks in the chat.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:25

And if you're joining us for the replay or listening to the podcast, thanks for joining us.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:29

You can always experienced the live.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:32

At facebook.com/podcast editors, mastermind.com.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:35

We would love to have you be here to be part of the community today.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:38

We're going to talk about whether or not podcast editors can leave social media.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:44

In other words, what happens if a podcast editor leaves social media and we have a special guest, we'll do that introduction in just a second.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:51

Actually we'll go ahead and do that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:52

Now, Chris Curran is joining us today.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:54

If you've seen the show before, you've probably seen Chris he's spoken at pod Fest.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:59

He's the founder, the teacher, the, all the things at podcast engineering, school.com.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:05

He also has the podcast engineering.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:08

And I mean, he's just a great all around guy to, to have here introductions.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:12

I'm Brian and Springer.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:13

You can find me@toptieraudio.com and above me until one side or the other

Daniel Abendroth: 00:02:17

is, um, Daniel Abin drought.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:02:19

You can find me at Roth media audio.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:22

Cool.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:22

And Chris, I do want to say thanks for joining us.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:24

It's really great to have you here.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:26

I'm

Chris Curran: 00:02:26

so happy to be back.

Chris Curran: 00:02:27

It's great.

Chris Curran: 00:02:28

I love talking to you guys.

Chris Curran: 00:02:29

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:02:29

And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:29

this was kind of our sneaky way to accident.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:32

Get you back on social media without making you get onto social media.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:37

Actually, there was no ulterior motive there, but the reason we invited Chris on is because about a year, year and a half ago.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:45

Chris did leave social

Chris Curran: 00:02:46

media.

Chris Curran: 00:02:47

I pretty much only left Facebook, but I started using some of the other platforms differently at the same time

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:53

as we kick it off.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:54

Why don't you just share that story?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:02:55

Like why you did it and what you did?

Chris Curran: 00:02:57

Yeah, sure.

Chris Curran: 00:02:58

So I was on Facebook since, I don't know, 20 2009 or something.

Chris Curran: 00:03:02

Right.

Chris Curran: 00:03:03

And then, um, and I had different pages for my different ventures and podcasts engineering school was one of them.

Chris Curran: 00:03:09

Everything's going fine.

Chris Curran: 00:03:10

I mean, Facebook, like.

Chris Curran: 00:03:13

The type of person who's on social media all day messaging and posting.

Chris Curran: 00:03:18

And like I'm, I'm not that kind of a user.

Chris Curran: 00:03:20

I was more, they're pretty much only there because I thought I had to be, and that was fine.

Chris Curran: 00:03:27

And I posted stuff there.

Chris Curran: 00:03:28

It was fine.

Chris Curran: 00:03:29

But then after a lot of the craziness in the world started happening, I started to not want to trust these big centralized social media companies.

Chris Curran: 00:03:40

That have all this power and are censoring things and there's a lot going on there.

Chris Curran: 00:03:44

And in fact, I saw that movie, I think it's a movie or a documentary called the social dilemma, which is all about Facebook.

Chris Curran: 00:03:52

And that shows you what's actually going on at Facebook and actually how social media is affecting our society.

Chris Curran: 00:03:59

And it's really, really bad anyway.

Chris Curran: 00:04:02

So when I decided to get off Facebook, I kind of wanted to get off complete.

Chris Curran: 00:04:07

But then again, part of me was like, no, you should be there.

Chris Curran: 00:04:09

Just post there.

Chris Curran: 00:04:10

You don't have to open Facebook, just post everything to Facebook.

Chris Curran: 00:04:14

Right.

Chris Curran: 00:04:14

Makes sense.

Chris Curran: 00:04:15

So what I did is I closed my main account and then I was able to download all my data and information for the past 12 years.

Chris Curran: 00:04:24

So a huge download because they allow you, they, they sort of, I think they have to allow you to download all your content.

Chris Curran: 00:04:30

So I downloaded all that, that took like a day, even several days.

Chris Curran: 00:04:34

And then my idea was.

Chris Curran: 00:04:36

Actually after I was off for about a month, I tried to create a new account.

Chris Curran: 00:04:40

And then I said on this new account, I'm only going to put in limited information and then I'll just post there.

Chris Curran: 00:04:46

But somehow, either they knew it was from the same IP address.

Chris Curran: 00:04:49

They somehow knew it was me.

Chris Curran: 00:04:51

And then they didn't, then they just banned that account.

Chris Curran: 00:04:54

And then I tried again from a different computer and they banned that one and I was like, all right, well, I guess I'm all for good then.

Chris Curran: 00:05:00

So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:01

you mentioned you watched the social.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:03

And that struck a chord.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:05

I, I saw the, the show as well.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:07

Um, but as I think about the prospect of potentially taking all of my assets off of Facebook, not just the personal relationships, but also like the, the business accounts and all that stuff.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:20

There's a little bit of fear that goes, Hey, if you do this, what's going to happen.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:24

Did you struggle with that?

Chris Curran: 00:05:26

I felt like I was missing Facebook for the first few weeks or maybe even a month.

Chris Curran: 00:05:30

Like I kind of, it, it was weird not being able to log in and look around and stuff.

Chris Curran: 00:05:35

I definitely felt that for a little bit, but then that just went away and that's then it's once you're away for long enough, then it doesn't matter.

Chris Curran: 00:05:42

Like it doesn't, you don't even think about

Daniel Abendroth: 00:05:43

it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:05:44

Uh, addiction at dopamine, they get, whenever you like you log in, it's like, oh, I have 20 notifications.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:05:50

Right.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:05:50

That's really hard

Chris Curran: 00:05:51

to give up withdrawal.

Chris Curran: 00:05:52

That's the word I was looking for.

Chris Curran: 00:05:54

I did have a little withdrawal, but.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:56

And, uh, you, you kept some other accounts.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:58

Can you share a little bit about like what you did keep and why?

Chris Curran: 00:06:02

Oh yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:06:02

So the other, other social media, like Twitter and Instagram, for instance, I kept my accounts there.

Chris Curran: 00:06:08

I would love to be off of those platforms as well, but again, I just post there.

Chris Curran: 00:06:14

I don't really hang out there too much.

Chris Curran: 00:06:16

That's how I look at social media right now, because right now the world is changing in terms of.

Chris Curran: 00:06:23

These big social media companies that started around 2005 and now they're fully mature and it's a centralized model of data really, and business and the world right now is actually in the midst of a shift towards decentralized platforms and decentralized apps.

Chris Curran: 00:06:42

And so what that means is that there's no one owner, you know, it's like Bitcoin, nobody owns Bitcoin.

Chris Curran: 00:06:49

There's not one computer that runs Bitcoin.

Chris Curran: 00:06:51

It's a decentralized network.

Chris Curran: 00:06:54

And so now there's a lot of social media applications coming up that are built on the blockchain that are decentralized, that, you know, they still have some rules and stuff, because obviously there are things you just shouldn't post and.

Chris Curran: 00:07:07

But as far as like people being banned for their political opinion or, or things like that, that doesn't happen.

Chris Curran: 00:07:14

So the new world of social media, that'll probably, I don't know how long it's going to take to mature.

Chris Curran: 00:07:19

And I don't know how long it's going to take for a lot of people to get off Facebook and go to some of these new platforms.

Chris Curran: 00:07:24

It's going to take a while.

Chris Curran: 00:07:25

Right?

Chris Curran: 00:07:25

It's definitely, it's not going to happen overnight, but someday with this web three, I don't know if you heard about web three, it's all about people being in control of their own data and that.

Chris Curran: 00:07:36

It's up to me to give permission to you to use my data.

Chris Curran: 00:07:39

It's not that you just get all my data and you can do whatever you want and you could sell it.

Chris Curran: 00:07:44

It's changing, but it's going to take awhile.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:46

So I've got a relatively large Facebook group for the Hindenburg users group.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:50

I don't know, 900 members, something like that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:52

And I've thought about pulling that group off of Facebook because we've had a couple of people reach out to me and go like, You're the only reason I'm still on Facebook or, you know, I'm planning to leave for whatever.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:02

And these are, these are people whose relationship matters to me, not just that they're a member, but like, this is somebody I know, and I would want to keep them around.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:09

And I've thought like, if I were to move one, where would I move people there?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:15

And two, because it's a new location.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:18

How do I get people to go?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:20

And in quotes, check their inbox, right?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:22

Because.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:23

The value for me as a group owner in Facebook is that people are going there already.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:27

So it's like setting up my shop on the town square, so to speak as opposed to having a shop out in the middle of nowhere that people have to remember to go to.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:38

And I'm like, I don't know how to cross that bridge because I would love to be able to have that group be my own and have it someplace where I can.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:47

All the things, not like in a weird way, but like, yeah, like I am in control.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:51

No, not that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:53

Um, I don't know how to bridge that gap.

Chris Curran: 00:08:55

That's the weird phase we're in right now.

Chris Curran: 00:08:57

It's easy to understand.

Chris Curran: 00:08:58

If you think in terms of YouTube, think of YouTube.

Chris Curran: 00:09:01

YouTube has become such a bad place for free speech.

Chris Curran: 00:09:05

There are so many things being banned off YouTube.

Chris Curran: 00:09:07

It's silly, actually.

Chris Curran: 00:09:09

So there are now these other platforms like Odyssey and rumble and bitch you and.

Chris Curran: 00:09:15

That are great, but there's not a lot of people over there compared to YouTube.

Chris Curran: 00:09:20

So it is hard to get people to move.

Chris Curran: 00:09:22

That's a fact, even people who have big audiences on YouTube and they continually encourage people to go to these other platforms, follow me on Odyssey, follow me on rumble.

Chris Curran: 00:09:32

A lot of people do, but most probably don't.

Chris Curran: 00:09:35

So it is hard to get people over there.

Chris Curran: 00:09:37

And the other issue I just thought of is that Facebook and YouTube.

Chris Curran: 00:09:43

They work really well.

Chris Curran: 00:09:45

They really are the best products in the market.

Chris Curran: 00:09:48

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:09:49

They are because of their success because of their development, because of the money they can put into it.

Chris Curran: 00:09:54

There's a million reasons why, but they really are the best in terms of how they work.

Chris Curran: 00:10:00

And.

Chris Curran: 00:10:01

So you go to these other platforms and they don't work.

Chris Curran: 00:10:03

You know, it doesn't work as well.

Chris Curran: 00:10:05

And then people get frustrated with that.

Chris Curran: 00:10:06

So it's just, it's natural.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:08

There's so many directions I want to go.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:09

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:09

Because I can see immediately also a connection between YouTube versus a podcast.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:15

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:15

And the fact that there's an RSS feed that you own and people can listen where they want.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:19

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:19

So I kind of want to go there, but that's not what this show is about.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:23

So I'm thinking about that podcast editor that they're going.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:25

Okay, cool.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:26

Like I'm not sure that I like where this is headed either.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:30

Where am I going to find my clients?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:31

Like this is where I hang out.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:33

This is where I try to prospect.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:35

Did, did it affect your business to leave?

Chris Curran: 00:10:38

I don't know, actually, because I'm not very good at marketing and I'm not very good at metrics either evaluating my effort online in terms of dollars that come through the door.

Chris Curran: 00:10:49

Like I've never known that answer.

Chris Curran: 00:10:51

Is that wrong?

Chris Curran: 00:10:52

Am I a bad person for that?

Chris Curran: 00:10:53

I don't know maybe, but I just, I don't know.

Chris Curran: 00:10:55

I don't know how to do.

Chris Curran: 00:10:57

Like, look, if someone, for instance, if there's a podcast editor that is getting all their business from Facebook, then don't leave Facebook.

Chris Curran: 00:11:05

You know what I mean?

Chris Curran: 00:11:06

Like, sorry, there's a practicality to this as well.

Chris Curran: 00:11:10

Whatever's work.

Chris Curran: 00:11:12

You might want to keep that working and may you might want to build something on the side or figure out something on the side while you're continuing to earn an income.

Chris Curran: 00:11:19

Yeah, it was a bit

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:20

what I did because I have like Brian, I have a, a group for a Reaper and like it started on Facebook and then I kind of Gretta into a YouTube channel.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:29

It seems like I'm hitting all of the, uh, the big, bad guys, but then if I had people on YouTube comments saying, They don't have Facebook.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:38

I suggested other platforms like I've then expanded into have a sub Reddit as well as I use a community feature on YouTube and the Facebook group.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:48

Um, cause right in YouTube, a little more public.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:49

So you'll want to get to actually like have to join this private group and everything.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:54

And as I also point people to Tom Kelly's discord for people that are on discord.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:11:59

So yeah, like I I'm trying to diversify so that way people can connect and get the same information.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:12:05

Wherever their hats.

Chris Curran: 00:12:07

That is a definitely a good strategy.

Chris Curran: 00:12:08

And yeah, it's a pain in the butt, right.

Chris Curran: 00:12:10

It's just that, that a lot more, it's just a pain we're in the middle of some transition.

Chris Curran: 00:12:15

And again, for all the good, the big social media platforms have brought us.

Chris Curran: 00:12:20

There's definitely bad that comes along with that.

Chris Curran: 00:12:23

And by the way you said, when you started talking just now Daniel, you said like, oh, I'm still on all the bad boys or something.

Chris Curran: 00:12:30

Like, we all are really, we're all

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:33

there.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:33

We're streaming to one right now.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:35

We get it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:35

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:35

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:36

It's

Chris Curran: 00:12:36

okay.

Chris Curran: 00:12:37

It's were there.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:12:38

I know for me, like kind of off topic, but just like how I handle social media these days is when I am on Facebook, it takes effort, but trying to avoid my timeline, my.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:12:49

'cause that's where, like I get sucked into the negativity.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:12:52

I see posts from like the politicians that I'm constituent of and like seeing the comments and like the negativity and like the hate and like all the negativity, like, it really sucks you in it's like, it takes effort to like, stay away from that.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:13:05

And I tried to focus on just staying in the groups because then I can choose what groups I'm in.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:13:11

I can cure, rate my own experience,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:14

I think, as a content creator also.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:16

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:18

There's the one side, which is the consumption and I'm probably the poster child for the person that does all the wrong things.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:23

I scroll the timeline.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:25

I have all the, like I have it on my phone.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:27

I even have notifications turned on for some of them might all the wrong things.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:31

But then also as a content creator, I'm wondering like Chris, to your point, as far as like measuring things, I have a little bit of trouble measuring the ROI of what I do.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:40

And I'm wondering like, are there strategies that you've been able to use Daniel?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:44

Make you feel like you're being effective with social media for less time?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:13:48

I can definitely say that there is a benefit into avoiding my timeline because I don't get sucked into the time waste aspect of it, because it's really easy to be like, you know, I'm feeling kind of down from editing.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:00

Let me just take a quick break, scroll Facebook for a little bit, and then I'll get right back to.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:04

Cut to an hour later, I haven't done any work, but now I'm like deep in my feelings about whatever I've been consuming on Facebook.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:11

So there's definitely a benefit of like avoiding that time suck as far as the business.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:15

So I've never gotten clients off of Facebook or social media.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:20

It's always been word of mouth through my current clients.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:23

And I've been very fortunate to be able to build my business that way that I don't need to rely on social media.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:28

What I rely on social media for namely well, YouTube to host the videos.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:33

But they do, but like on Facebook is being able to share my knowledge.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:37

So I do get joy out of like helping other podcasters and especially helping.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:42

Steer them in the right direction, such as don't buy a Yeti because you probably don't have the space for it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:49

Um, and just helping other podcasts that are starting out.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:14:52

And then also using that to kind of promote my Reaper for podcasting universe, whatever,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:58

you know, it's interesting that you say that because this is something that I've been thinking about because I spent a lot of time in the groups answering questions and really trying to provide, not just by this microphone, but like, this is the thought process.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:11

That I went through, like, this is how you think about this thing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:14

And I'm wondering like, transparently, am I being stupid by putting that on a platform instead of putting it on my own platform?

Chris Curran: 00:15:21

I think the answer to that is definitely no, I think you to say yes when you asked that question, what's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:28

that Daniel was going to say, yes, you're being an idiot.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:30

No,

Daniel Abendroth: 00:15:31

no.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:15:32

I was saying it's probably not smart to only put it on Facebook.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:15:35

It can do more by putting it on your own.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:15:37

Yeah, property as well

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:39

as basically I cut you off

Chris Curran: 00:15:40

Chris.

Chris Curran: 00:15:40

I'm sorry about that.

Chris Curran: 00:15:41

No, no, just shit.

Chris Curran: 00:15:42

Like, like I remember in the early days of the internet and social media, me and many other people were hesitant to share a lot of our knowledge online because it's like, you just feel like you're giving it away.

Chris Curran: 00:15:53

But guys who are the most successful, like Gary V for instance, and many other people, they say share it on.

Chris Curran: 00:16:00

Like literally share it all that never really made sense to me, but I guess it kind of does because you you're putting stuff out there and you're getting into the world and you're allowing the universe to trickle your information to whoever needs it and all that.

Chris Curran: 00:16:14

Like it just eventually, it, it helps in many ways, probably even if we can't track it to, you know, a source of revenue

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:22

or something that kind of plays into an idea that I have, because I've been finding myself.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:26

A tiny bit worked up sometimes when I answer these questions for the 500,000 at the time, and I've been thinking like, what would happen if I started a podcast where I.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:36

Uh, in an angry, middle-aged almost old, man, voice answered these questions and said, no, this is not the way we do this.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:44

This, this is wrong.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:46

Um, and anyway, yeah, but, but see, I don't actually want to be angry and I don't really want that to be my brand is like the angry guy, but there's part of me that's going, I don't know if people can, especially on social media where there's a zillion voices already, but can people actually hear that quiet?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:05

Assured voice that says, like, just do it this way.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:08

Or do you have to yell into the abyss and go, this is how you do it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:13

That is something I struggle with all the time.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:16

One of my clients actually had this because she is an expert in her topic.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:21

So whenever she likes shares on social media or like in her podcast, I was thinking the same thing Heather said makes me think of angry, man.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:29

Get off my lawn or.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:30

But she goes like in depth and like gets really into the meat of her topic.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:35

But the people that are gaining followers and having, you know, growth are the ones that are like really surface level.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:44

And so that's where I struggled with because like the voices that have the biggest impact are the ones that are like the loudest and the most.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:51

Self-assured not the person like you, Brian.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:54

That's like, here's all the things that you really need to consider.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:17:57

Not here's one.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:59

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:00

And I think like the answer that I would like point to, like everybody gives us answer by the ATR 2100 or by the Samsung Q2 U, which is an acceptable microphone.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:11

There's nothing wrong with either of those microphones there, they're fine microphones, but that's not necessarily the best thing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:18

Because there are so many other things to think about.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:20

Anyway, I'm going to shut up about this because we're kind of going off on a bunny

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:23

trail,

Chris Curran: 00:18:24

by the way, Johann wants to be your co-host on the ghetto, the get off my lawn.

Chris Curran: 00:18:28

Actually, you can't call it.

Chris Curran: 00:18:28

Get off my lawn.

Chris Curran: 00:18:29

There's already a popular podcast with that name.

Chris Curran: 00:18:32

Two angry guys

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:33

yelling.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:33

I love it.

Chris Curran: 00:18:35

What did the Simpsons that got like angry man yells at clouds or something?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:18:40

I think old man yells.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:42

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:43

I mean, the good thing about social media is it does allow us to stay focused and on topic, which is great and also not true.

Chris Curran: 00:18:50

Um, Brian, you could do that as a skit within your show.

Chris Curran: 00:18:53

Just do like a minute.

Chris Curran: 00:18:55

So you do a skit like angry Brian or something.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:59

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:59

Drama is not actually something that I enjoy that much, but yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:03

And Heather says, yeah, so many people misuse Mike's the environment is so much more important.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:08

Um, and so it was always overlooked.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:10

Totally agree, Heather, in fact, that's some advice that I shared today was just, Hey yeah, the voice is important, but don't buy the mic for your voice.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:18

By the mic for your room first and then choose the next option for your voice.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:22

Like, don't use this microphone, the one that I'm using in an echo chamber, because it's not the right microphone for that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:29

It's just not, how did we get on this?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:31

This isn't even what we're supposed to be talking about.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:32

Daniel, would you reel me in it's okay.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:19:34

This is real life.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:19:35

It's about trying to stand out on social media.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:19:38

So the value of social media, is it good for your business or are we just wasting our.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:19:44

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:44

So I know that I've got one client that I got through social media, but it's actually not because I was constantly posting or anything.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:53

It was really because she saw the answers that I gave to the question.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:57

And she thought this guy knows what he's talking about.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:59

Probably because I went to Chris Curran's podcast engineering school, shout out to Chris.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:03

Um, and also because I had a website that had prices on it and told people what I got, like, it wasn't anything to do with social media other than the fact that that's actually just where we met.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:12

Chris, have you ever gotten, I don't know.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:14

Do you get clients through social media or students?

Chris Curran: 00:20:17

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:20:18

As far as clients?

Chris Curran: 00:20:18

I don't think so.

Chris Curran: 00:20:21

I think people have found my website and stuff like that.

Chris Curran: 00:20:23

And also mostly.

Chris Curran: 00:20:25

My biggest client came from, they found me on LinkedIn, but yeah, as far as students for my school, I asked all of them when I have my initial meeting.

Chris Curran: 00:20:33

How did you find out about me?

Chris Curran: 00:20:34

A lot of it is just searching on the web and then there's a lot of other things it's, it's, it's, you know, they saw a video or they saw it on social media or, or they got recommended.

Chris Curran: 00:20:45

I mean, even Daniel, I think just recently someone who signed up said that they, that they were in your group and that you had mentioned something about me.

Chris Curran: 00:20:55

That's how they found out.

Chris Curran: 00:20:57

That's awesome.

Chris Curran: 00:20:57

So thank you, Daniel.

Chris Curran: 00:20:59

I love it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:00

Daniel, do you ever get clients through social media?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:03

So I think I've had one or two console calls because my wife isn't she podcasts.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:12

So at not at my business, I have gotten.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:15

A couple of coaching sessions.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:16

So one of the things services I offer for podcasting is coaching.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:20

So you can hire me to do like a one-on-one hour long session where I teach you how to use Reaper or help you solve whatever problem you're having.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:27

So I have gotten a couple of sessions from social media that way, but as far as my clients in my business, no.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:21:34

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:34

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:35

And, uh, Andrea says that she doesn't get her clients on social, but it is a validator for someone when they're referred to.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:42

Uh, they'll check her LinkedIn or her Instagram.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:45

And then Heather says that she's only ever gotten clients from social media or as a referral from someone on social.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:52

So that's actually a little bit different than me.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:53

I'm like I've had that one client and all the rest of mine came as referrals from other sources.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:00

That's really interesting, Heather.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:02

I mean, to Chris's point, like if that's what's working for you, definitely, definitely.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:06

Don't take our advice and leave social.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:07

I'm probably not going to do it either, but it is something that I think about from time to.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:12

Now if people aren't getting their clients from a social, oops, sorry.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:16

Johan puts one in there as well.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:18

A lot through LinkedIn.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:20

So, Chris, I know you mentioned you'd gotten one from LinkedIn.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:22

I've never gotten a client from LinkedIn.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:24

Do you have any tips for me?

Chris Curran: 00:22:27

Well, no.

Chris Curran: 00:22:27

It's just someone searched for a podcast producer on LinkedIn.

Chris Curran: 00:22:31

This was 2016 and they just found me, they actually found seven people and they interviewed seven people and they got.

Chris Curran: 00:22:40

Uh, proposals and I was the lucky one who they chose.

Chris Curran: 00:22:44

I think Andrea's point about just being on social, because people are going to go look for you in a bunch of different places and just that you're there and you're posting that just makes you seem professional and.

Chris Curran: 00:22:59

Uh, is that somehow trustworthy?

Chris Curran: 00:23:01

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:01

That's actually the approach that I'm trying to take on Instagram, where I'm just posting things that I think are important for people to know that for me are reasonably on brand, but not really trying to grow my Instagram following.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:13

Although that would be great.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:14

I'd love to have however many people is good on Instagram, but frankly, I don't really like the platform that much.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:21

I just find it really easy to do a square image that has like seven words on it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:26

It's not just the microphone or, or whatever that is now for people that are thinking, okay, well, if I were to leave social media, how would I source clients?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:36

I know Chris, you've got a course for people who are interested in this, and this is part of why I wanted to talk to you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:41

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:42

Not only because you left, but also you've got a course for people.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:45

Would you mind sharing like what that is and what's in it and I'll I'll

Chris Curran: 00:23:50

yeah, so, I mean, I'm not going to do a whole sales pitch for the course.

Chris Curran: 00:23:52

I'll just say, I'll just give you the, the golden nugget right up front here.

Chris Curran: 00:23:56

The idea is that if you're a podcast editor or a podcast producer, and you want to get new clients, the biggest thing you can do is just introduce yourself to as many different people and businesses.

Chris Curran: 00:24:09

And I use an example, like if you could just walk down the street in your town and just go into every business and say, hi, my name's Chris.

Chris Curran: 00:24:16

Nice story.

Chris Curran: 00:24:17

You got here.

Chris Curran: 00:24:18

Uh, listen, I produce podcasts for a living, so I just wanted to introduce myself.

Chris Curran: 00:24:22

And if so, if you ever have questions about podcasting, Hey, you got one resource.

Chris Curran: 00:24:26

So that's it.

Chris Curran: 00:24:28

I just want to introduce myself.

Chris Curran: 00:24:29

Nice meeting you.

Chris Curran: 00:24:30

Bye.

Chris Curran: 00:24:31

And walk out the door, like just literally just introduce yourself and it could happen online as well.

Chris Curran: 00:24:37

A lot of people do that on LinkedIn.

Chris Curran: 00:24:38

They'll reach out to other people on LinkedIn personally on LinkedIn.

Chris Curran: 00:24:42

I get so many and really any social media platform, but LinkedIn, especially you get so many people who want to connect with you.

Chris Curran: 00:24:49

And then if you accept them as a friend, they immediately just spam their sales pitch.

Chris Curran: 00:24:55

And it's like, oh, it's so annoying.

Chris Curran: 00:24:57

So don't do that.

Chris Curran: 00:24:58

But just, you just have to let people know you exist and that you're a podcast producer and Hey, in the future, if you ever have questions, I could be a resource maybe.

Chris Curran: 00:25:08

Okay, good to meet you.

Chris Curran: 00:25:10

Bye.

Chris Curran: 00:25:11

Because I have actually experience in sales, in my family's a roofing and siding business.

Chris Curran: 00:25:17

I was doing sales for years and I took a bunch of really good sales courses.

Chris Curran: 00:25:21

And all it is is just talking to people.

Chris Curran: 00:25:24

If you talk to enough people.

Chris Curran: 00:25:26

You will build the business that you want to build.

Chris Curran: 00:25:28

It's not a question it's not debatable.

Chris Curran: 00:25:31

It's not a question you will.

Chris Curran: 00:25:33

And that's the opportunity that we all have is that we can each talk to people and introduce ourselves.

Chris Curran: 00:25:39

And the more you do that, the better your chances are.

Chris Curran: 00:25:42

And it's especially important when you start to raise your rates because none of us want to work for, you know, 50 bucks an hour or 75 bucks, or sorry, 50 bucks an episode.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:52

I was thinking like 75 bucks an hour.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:54

I might be okay with

Chris Curran: 00:25:55

50 bucks.

Chris Curran: 00:25:56

An episode is not enough for us we're professionals.

Chris Curran: 00:25:59

Right?

Chris Curran: 00:25:59

So if you want to get hired higher paying clients, you got to reach out to those higher paying companies.

Chris Curran: 00:26:06

And the way you determine who to reach out to in that sense is you have to make sure they have a marketing budget.

Chris Curran: 00:26:12

You have to make sure they're already spending marketing money to grow their business.

Chris Curran: 00:26:16

They have to have money to spend or else it doesn't make any sense to talk to them.

Chris Curran: 00:26:20

That's literally the one criteria.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:23

I hear what you're saying, and we're going to deal with a little bit in my head trash now.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:25

So sorry about that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:26

This is not intended to be Brian's counseling session, but I think some other people probably deal with this as well.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:31

The thought of going out and I'll just say, shake hands five times a day, or just pick a number, right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:39

Is kind of overwhelming to me, not just the interpersonal part about introducing myself, but also trying to keep track of those relationships and building relationships that really.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:49

Overwhelming to me because I don't get my energy from meeting new people.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:54

And I definitely don't get my energy from trying to keep track of five new relationships a day.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:00

Is that how it is or do you just need to reset me to like baseline?

Chris Curran: 00:27:05

No, no, that is very valid.

Chris Curran: 00:27:06

Okay.

Chris Curran: 00:27:07

Not all of, I'm not that way either.

Chris Curran: 00:27:09

I don't want to go do that either.

Chris Curran: 00:27:11

That's not my personality, you know, the whole extrovert introvert thing, like.

Chris Curran: 00:27:16

Some of us don't want to do that.

Chris Curran: 00:27:18

Other people love that.

Chris Curran: 00:27:19

Some people, they would love nothing more than to get in their car and just walk around and meet people and chit chat and talk.

Chris Curran: 00:27:25

They love it.

Chris Curran: 00:27:25

So I dunno, maybe there's a way to get a little creative here.

Chris Curran: 00:27:29

Maybe there's a way where guys like you and me could somehow partner with some other people who are the extroverts and who they do want to go out.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:39

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:40

Hey Daniel.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:40

I think Michelle likes actual people.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:42

Do you think she'd sell my services?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:27:46

I don't think he visited a sell mine first.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:48

Oh, okay.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:49

I appreciate you saying that because like, when I hear you talking about going out and shaking all those hands, I picture in my mind to Chris who actually enjoys that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:27:56

Not a Chris, that's going well, this is what I need to do to build my business.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:00

And maybe it's the truth.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:01

Isn't one of those two extremes.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:03

I don't

Chris Curran: 00:28:03

know.

Chris Curran: 00:28:03

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:28:04

Well, that's why I, for my smaller course, the getting new clients at higher rates.

Chris Curran: 00:28:09

In that course is a one week challenge.

Chris Curran: 00:28:12

Every month we do a one week challenge or we can do, we don't always do it, but where for five days, you're going to focus on reaching out to X number of people per day.

Chris Curran: 00:28:23

Pick a number.

Chris Curran: 00:28:24

Does it matter?

Chris Curran: 00:28:25

There'll be one person a day, but you're going to do it every day for five.

Chris Curran: 00:28:29

That's the new client challenge that I sort of throw out to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:32

students other than, and me be performing miserably at that challenge.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:36

Have you had anybody else take you up on that challenge?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:28:38

And I think a few

Chris Curran: 00:28:39

people have done it.

Chris Curran: 00:28:39

The thing is the, the, the slack group where all the students are, who purchased that smaller course, it's not very large, so there's not a lot of energy in there.

Chris Curran: 00:28:47

So it's again, look, this is how life works.

Chris Curran: 00:28:51

Let me tell you there's enough resources.

Chris Curran: 00:28:54

There's enough training.

Chris Curran: 00:28:56

There's enough training for you to be successful.

Chris Curran: 00:28:58

There's enough people to help you.

Chris Curran: 00:29:00

There's enough of everything.

Chris Curran: 00:29:01

You have everything you need to be successful.

Chris Curran: 00:29:04

You know why people aren't successful because they don't focus and persevere those two things.

Chris Curran: 00:29:10

You got to focus and you got to persevere.

Chris Curran: 00:29:12

Now, I'm not saying I'm great at that.

Chris Curran: 00:29:15

I'm just saying, that's what I learned.

Chris Curran: 00:29:17

And when I've done that it works.

Chris Curran: 00:29:18

It's like with your focus, you could burn a hole through the wall, metaphorically, you know what.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:25

Seriously.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:26

I was thinking that was going to be a ball joke there for a second.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:31

Yeah, no, I appreciate you saying that because I believe as, as well, right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:35

That we have what we need or we can get it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:38

Like, I, I totally agree with you and that focus.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:41

I think that brings us back to the thing about social media.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:45

For me, I know that social media can be a distraction for you, Chris having quit.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:49

What is arguably the largest social platform?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:54

In existence in history.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:56

What did that do for your business?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:59

Your focus, your creativity?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:00

Like what were the results

Chris Curran: 00:30:02

good or bad?

Chris Curran: 00:30:03

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:30:03

Well, it was good in terms of focus and not wasting as much time.

Chris Curran: 00:30:07

For sure.

Chris Curran: 00:30:08

And I say wasting, not that, not that time spent on Facebook is wasted time.

Chris Curran: 00:30:12

It's not right.

Chris Curran: 00:30:13

It can be if you overdo it.

Chris Curran: 00:30:15

So Facebook's not all bad, the way Facebook is taking all your data and making money off you.

Chris Curran: 00:30:22

And.

Chris Curran: 00:30:23

Messing with your mind and, and coercing you and brainwashing you with their agenda.

Chris Curran: 00:30:29

That's all nasty stuff.

Chris Curran: 00:30:31

That's nasty, nasty stuff.

Chris Curran: 00:30:33

But as far as business goes, yeah, I did feel a little bit that I had had more time.

Chris Curran: 00:30:39

My day was a little more free.

Chris Curran: 00:30:40

I did feel something like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:42

that, for sure.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:43

This is the part where everybody gets to see behind the scenes.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:45

And I'm just like, this is great.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:47

I'm not quite sure where we should head from here.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:49

Cause I think there's some more stuff, but I'm not sure.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:51

Where to go.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:52

Uh, Daniel, did you have any thoughts?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:30:54

I was just like trying to take it all in.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:30:56

I'll throw that to the chat, like anybody in chat, like if you have your own experiences or if you have questions, please let us know.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:03

I guess I will take it back to like the value of social media, you know, for some it's getting clients.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:09

And then for me, it's kind of building my personal brand and podcasting setting myself up as like an expert, because I was one of my goals for like 2020, I think was to.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:21

Kind of build my reputation as like the Reaper guy for podcasting, and then also shaping the future of podcasting in one small way.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:31

So a lot of people are on Facebook.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:33

They go there to get help on their shows.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:36

We can be like that voice of reason to kind of shape new podcasters into better practices.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:31:43

And hopefully dissuade them from harming their own shows and just kind of, you just kind of improving the industry one little bit at a time.

Chris Curran: 00:31:51

That's a great point.

Chris Curran: 00:31:52

Another point I just thought of is that okay, you can be on social media to try to get clients.

Chris Curran: 00:31:56

That's one reason to be there.

Chris Curran: 00:31:58

The other reason is just to hang out and talk with friends because here's the biggest thing that I started missing since I've been on Facebook.

Chris Curran: 00:32:05

I haven't talked to you, Brian.

Chris Curran: 00:32:07

I haven't talked to you, Daniel.

Chris Curran: 00:32:08

I haven't talked to Steve.

Chris Curran: 00:32:10

I haven't talked to any of you guys that we use the sort of message on Facebook and stuff that still has an effect on me.

Chris Curran: 00:32:17

I feel like I'm set.

Chris Curran: 00:32:18

I really actually feel like I'm more separated from the entire industry.

Chris Curran: 00:32:23

I feel that that's one benefit of being.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:27

I actually thought it was just me feeling separated from you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:29

Like Chris is fine because Chris is, I mean, he's a rock star, so yeah, we do have a couple of questions from the chat that I think it'd be great to get to Heather asks.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:41

Should you hire a social media manager?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:44

If social media is working for you, but you need more time to focus on your business?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:50

I have an opinion, but I'll kind of hold that and let Daniel or Chris, whoever wants to go over.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:32:54

I will say, I wish Carrie was here.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:32:56

Unfortunately, Carrie couldn't make it tonight, but I think she either has, or had a social media team.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:04

Who's basically just like, here's what we need, create this content and then we'll take care of it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:09

So it's still, your brain is still your intellect, but you just have somebody on the side keeping you focused and letting know what you need and just kind of helping you, helping direct you where you need to go.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:23

So, what was the question?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:25

Should you have a social media manager if social media is working for you, but you need more time?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:29

Absolutely.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:30

I think anything in your business can be outsourced almost anything or maybe anything.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:36

So I think in a past episode, I was talking about how there are like two ideas behind outsourcing one outsourcing things that you're an expert in that.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:46

Isn't generating business or making money or whatever, like your time is better spent elsewhere or outsourcing things that you're not proficient in.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:54

And so then you can hire somebody who's better at that than you are and be more productive than you could ever be.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:33:59

So like, even if social media is working for you, you can still do social media, but just have somebody there to kind of having somebody supplement so you can cut back and have somebody else supplement that for you.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:34:11

So you can maintain the same kind of social media.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:34:13

Then also have more time to focus on other activities where your time is better spent.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:34:21

Chris, did

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:21

you have any thoughts about that one?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:22

I

Chris Curran: 00:34:22

actually did.

Chris Curran: 00:34:23

So I've never had a social media manager.

Chris Curran: 00:34:26

I've never had anyone helped me do anything on social media, but as you were talking, Daniel, I thought that let's say I did hire a social media manager and they told me, look, you need to give me one piece of content every day, you know, Now I would feel accountable, more accountable to myself that, Hey, I got to do something every day.

Chris Curran: 00:34:45

Whereas if I didn't have a manager and it's me, I'll be like, ah, I'll do it tomorrow.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:34:49

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:34:50

Every day I'll

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:50

do it tomorrow.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:51

Totally.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:52

My opinion.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:53

I think to Daniel's point, there are a lot of things that can be outside.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:57

To somebody and to Chris's point, there's definitely value in having to provide something to somebody or at least provide them direction.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:04

I think the one thing that you can't outsource to a social media manager is building relationships.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:10

And this will kind of play into a couple of the things that came next.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:13

But I have a client where I've picked up creating some social media assets and scheduling them for him to publish, like to help promote his episodes.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:21

But it was really clear with him.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:22

Like I'm not managing your social media.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:25

I will publish these.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:27

But social media is social and they need to be interacting with you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:31

Like I'm not dove soap, trying to have a relationship with a million Americans, right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:38

I'm a dude editing a podcast for a guy and this podcast is personal.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:43

People are sticking you in their ears.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:45

So this needs to be like, that's the part that I think you can't outsource.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:49

Can you outsource building community?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:51

Maybe if you have somebody helping you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:54

That's already part of that community.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:55

Maybe you can outsource a portion of that, but it's, if it's your community, I think you still have to build it because that's an extension of those relationships.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:03

And Andrea commented that she had just hired a VA.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:06

Who's helping her create audiograms for herself and her clients.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:09

And it's great, but she hasn't brought anybody in to help with strategy or actually scheduling Andrea.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:14

That's something that I'm considering as far as like the scheduling part, because not just for me, but also some of my clients, but I haven't gotten there yet.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:22

Um, and I'm booked to butcher this name.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:23

I'm sorry.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:24

Every time we try to see when we get a millimeter millimeter, what are the services apart from editing?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:30

Do you offer or call yourself a podcast producer or do you need to offer to call yourself a podcast producer?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:36

I'll kind of start this one off.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:38

I think podcast producer is a bit of a loose term and it's probably not super well-defined because.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:44

We'll have some people that are coming from radio or TV who have one idea of what a producer does versus somebody coming from music who has a different idea of what a producer does.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:54

I call myself a podcast editor and a podcast manager, and I tell people that I help them produce their podcasts, but I don't put on my producer hat and determined for them content strategy.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:05

I don't help them source guests or anything like that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:08

What I do.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:09

Once they're done recording.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:11

If they want me to I'll do all of the things all the way to emailing the guests and saying, Hey, your episode is published.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:17

So scheduling graphics, like I've got a small team, that'll help me with that kind of stuff.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:22

But if you're wanting me to, to help you define what your content strategy needs to be, I would come in as a consultant and help you with that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:30

But I would not be your producer.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:32

I'm not gonna decide who you're going to interview next.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:34

That's your call?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:35

What about you?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:37:37

Yeah, for me, like I producer is more on the front end of the creation aspect I could produce.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:37:43

There needs to be somebody who has a vested interest or like, uh, an input into the direction of the show.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:37:51

Whereas like the editing is post-production yes.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:37:54

I see them as like two different things.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:37:57

So to call yourself podcast producers, like you probably have to have input into the direction of the show or the current.

Chris Curran: 00:38:03

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:38:03

And I agree with both of you.

Chris Curran: 00:38:04

And I think each of us has to decide what to call ourselves so you can pick whatever label you want to call your, you know, label yourself as, but I think inevitably when you talk to a potential client, you're going to end up, well, you have to talk them through what you're going to do, what you're not going to do.

Chris Curran: 00:38:23

And like, so you sort of spell out the whole thing to the potential client anyway.

Chris Curran: 00:38:27

So what you call yourself is.

Chris Curran: 00:38:30

Pick a good name, pick a good title, but inevitably, you're going to have to talk it through with the,

Daniel Abendroth: 00:38:36

yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:38:37

That's almost

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:37

arbitrary.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:38

That plays into what Andrea said in terms of, it depends on what you want to do, your skillset and your client's needs, which immediately sends me off to an Aaron Neville.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:45

I don't know much, but I know I love you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:47

So as a podcast manager, I don't do much, but I do what I do very well, like, and that's the thing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:54

Right?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:54

Do the things you're good at.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:56

And don't try to build your business around things that you're not.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:59

It's okay to have those things in your business, if you found a way to do them, but don't make that your core offering.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:04

If you're a really good editor, be a really good editor.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:07

And if you want to add other stuff great, but don't make that your core offering.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:10

And if it starts to distract or detract from what you do, maybe have that conversation with yourself.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:15

I can't tell you to stop doing it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:17

Maybe it's time to rethink.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:19

I dunno.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:19

What do you guys think

Chris Curran: 00:39:20

about that?

Chris Curran: 00:39:20

Maybe angry.

Chris Curran: 00:39:21

Brian could tell them to stop doing it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:26

Now I've got to now I got to put it in my Dr.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:27

Phil voice and that's like, I can't even do a Dr.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:30

Phil.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:32

I'm going to shut up now because this is turning into like two, two drunk guys in a basement talking.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:38

Uh, what was the question?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:40

Uh, w what do you, oh, I

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:42

don't know.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:43

Oh, like being editor, if you know.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:44

Okay.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:44

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:44

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:45

For me, like, I'm an editor.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:48

Um, that's where my skill set is.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:50

However, my clients also want show notes and transcripts, and that is not where my joy is at.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:57

It's not where my skills are.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:39:58

Like, I've tried to write show notes and I can do it, but it is pulling teeth.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:03

It takes me forever.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:04

And I just hate, Hey, everybody.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:07

So I hired somebody to write show notes for me.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:10

And so if a client wants show notes written, then I can work with this other person to get them done.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:16

Same thing for a transcript.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:17

I can hire a transcriptionist who can do it much faster, much more accurate than I ever could.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:23

And then like the ROI is there because then I can add a little bit on the top to offer that to my clients.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:29

Yeah, that's the approach I take as well.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:31

Right?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:31

I'm not, I'm an okay writer.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:34

It's not really my core skill.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:35

And so I've brought in a writer as well.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:37

I haven't brought anybody in for graphics yet, but that's probably it's graphics or VA.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:41

I'm not sure which one is next.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:40:43

Yeah, graphics is my next

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:44

one.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:44

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:45

And Chris, I don't recall for sure.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:47

Did you ever offer anything beyond.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:50

Editing for post-production like, did you do all of the other stuff too?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:53

Like what was your business?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:55

Yeah, no, I,

Chris Curran: 00:40:55

I didn't do anything else.

Chris Curran: 00:40:56

So I would obviously produce the audio.

Chris Curran: 00:40:59

And so my, my specialized offering was pretty much that I would be present during the recording sessions.

Chris Curran: 00:41:07

I would actually engineered the recording sessions live.

Chris Curran: 00:41:11

Get on Riverside or squad cast.

Chris Curran: 00:41:13

And, you know, my host shows up, my guest shows up or their guests shows up and I say, hello, hello, soundcheck people.

Chris Curran: 00:41:20

So running the recording session was kind of the thing that made me different from almost everybody.

Chris Curran: 00:41:25

I think it still does.

Chris Curran: 00:41:26

I don't know many people who do that.

Chris Curran: 00:41:28

That's like a real kind of like a white glove service.

Chris Curran: 00:41:31

And you could charge a lot more for that obviously.

Chris Curran: 00:41:33

Cause cause then you still have to do all the post-production, but you gotta be there.

Chris Curran: 00:41:37

Recording session, which is really great.

Chris Curran: 00:41:40

I mean, being able to fix bad audio before you press the record button.

Chris Curran: 00:41:44

Oh

Daniel Abendroth: 00:41:45

yeah, yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:41:46

And your clients love it because then they can feel a little more professional.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:41:51

Cause I w I do that for a couple of my clients and one of them, she just, she loves it because it just makes her, it kind of raises her status.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:42:00

'cause like she has her own producer who handles everything.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:42:02

You don't have to worry about it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:42:03

Plus like she doesn't have to worry about recording.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:07

And this wasn't the goal of my question.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:08

But as you were talking about that, I remembered one of your daily goodies recently was about your white glove service.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:13

I'll handle the recording session for you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:15

So if you want to check out what Chris does, podcast engineering, school.com.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:19

And check out the daily goodie there.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:21

Daniel, I don't have a direct link.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:22

Sorry about that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:24

Andrea says that she helps them with what appears to be just about everything.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:28

Seasoned content, scheduling guests, recording the sessions, editorial content decisions.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:35

Daniel, you may have to take over reading a script narration.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:39

Everything.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:39

Wow.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:40

Andrea that's that is stellar.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:42

Uh, what an incredible offering as we drive this to a close, I think we've gotten some great stuff out of the chat questions as well as comments, but we do have to do our pod decks question of the day.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:53

So I, I have five cards here.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:55

None of us knows the question we're going to be answering yet.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:57

I haven't even read them yet.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:58

So, Chris, I need you to ask me or pick for me a number from one to five.

Chris Curran: 00:43:02

Is this going to be an audio question?

Chris Curran: 00:43:04

This is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:04

going to be a question we have to answer live.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:08

Five number five.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:11

Uh, this is going to be amazing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:15

It's nothing to do with podcasting, which band or artist dead or alive would play at your funeral.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:21

I'm going to have to go with the grateful dead.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:24

Not because I ever really listened to them, but because I can't think of anybody more qualified to play a funeral,

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:30

the name fits.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:32

I had a friend in high school who wanted another one bites.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:35

The dust played at his funeral.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:36

But for like a little serious, the answer, um, there is a band called Ludo, really small, kind of a cult following out of St.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:45

Louis that I've been listening to since high school that my wife and I just love we go to every show we can.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:43:52

So, yeah, probably then,

Chris Curran: 00:43:53

so I not only know the band, I know the song.

Chris Curran: 00:43:56

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:43:57

It's definitely tool and it's definitely 46 and two because that's literally my favorite band and my favorite song of all time.

Chris Curran: 00:44:06

That song is also about moving onto the other side, passing her your shadow, moving on to the other side.

Chris Curran: 00:44:13

It's deep lyrics.

Chris Curran: 00:44:14

Really

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:14

good.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:15

It's a couple of videos about tool and like their use of poly rhythm and poly harmony, but I never really got into them as a band.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:22

So that's, that's an interesting choice.

Chris Curran: 00:44:25

They're a deep band.

Chris Curran: 00:44:26

It's hard to listen to tool casually, right?

Chris Curran: 00:44:28

Just have it on in the.

Chris Curran: 00:44:30

Then it doesn't really make sense then because of the odd time signatures and it's not, you know, it's not simple, but it bought when you actually focus and listen and you get sucked into it, then they become literally the greatest band in the world.

Chris Curran: 00:44:43

Meaning among other great bands

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:47

in excess.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:47

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:49

Just kidding.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:50

I do like some rush.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:51

I mean, I realized the only nevermind nerd time we talk about music stuff later.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:56

We gotta, we gotta bring this thing home before we do, though.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:58

I want to say first off, Carrie, we missed you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:02

This is what happens when you can't make it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:04

So please, please be able to make it because not only did everybody have to deal with us live, but also Alejandro has to figure out what to do with this mess to turn it into a podcast.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:13

We missed you for those watching or listening.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:16

If you want to find Carrie Jalya podcasting.com.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:20

I carry

Chris Curran: 00:45:21

I I to talk to you in a million years, but so, hi,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:25

I'm Brian Ensminger.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:26

You can find me@toptieraudio.com.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:29

I'm Daniel admin drought.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:30

You can find me at Roth media,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:31

audio and

Chris Curran: 00:45:32

Chris.

Chris Curran: 00:45:33

Yeah.

Chris Curran: 00:45:33

Podcast engineering, school.com.

Chris Curran: 00:45:35

This has been wonderful.

Chris Curran: 00:45:36

I love you guys.

Chris Curran: 00:45:37

Thank you so much.

Chris Curran: 00:45:39

Oh,

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:39

thank you.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:39

Before we go.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:40

I know Chris, isn't going to do this, so I'll plug.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:43

Chris has an amazing program that Brian has gone through.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:45

I've always wanted to, it just never made it, made the commitment, but podcasts engineering school is a fantastic program.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:51

The next semester starts April 19th, 2022.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:45:54

And also another plug that if you are in the podcast editor academy, you can get $700 off using the program or the link or whatever, and the academy.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:07

So if you remember the.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:08

You can get $700 off.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:09

So, okay.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:10

Here we go.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:10

The, our incident in the course during that semester, the what is it?

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:16

$500 a year for the academy.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:17

Something like that.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:18

I don't remember.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:19

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:19

So sign up for the academy and then you're making money back already.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:22

Definitely.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:23

And because we haven't had enough calls to action to make Dave Jackson mad just yet.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:29

We're doing it.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:29

The answer it's okay.

Daniel Abendroth: 00:46:30

Right.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:31

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:31

I appreciate Dave.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:32

I really do.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:33

I'm like, I'm not trying to throw them under the bus because this is us.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:35

But if you are thinking to yourself, I would like to be a guest on that show because I either think I could bring some serious knowledge to those numbskulls or you're thinking, Hey, I'd like to talk about a business problem and see if they can help me out.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:47

Podcast editors, mastermind.com/should be a guest.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:50

There's a little form there.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:51

We've got a specially built.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:52

So as soon as you fill it out, it goes to Daniel's spam folder.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:55

They'll check his fam folder, find your email.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:57

We'll reach out to you.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:58

See if we can get you scheduled all that kind of.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:00

If you joined us live, or if you're listening, thank you for being here and putting up with all of this.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:04

We really appreciate you and yeah, Chris, thanks for joining us also.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:09

Thanks everybody.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:09

This was wonderful.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:10

It was going to hit.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:11

And

Daniel Abendroth: 00:47:18

how much is that?