Navigating the Podcast Editing Business Maze

Voiceover: 00:00:04

So How much is that?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:18

Mhmm. Alright. Welcome. We are the podcast editor's mastermind, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:22

we're getting started actually a little bit early again. That's twice in a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:25

row now that we've done that. Not sure what's happening. But anyway, tonight, I'm gonna

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:29

be in the hot seat, and I'm not at all nervous about that. And we

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:31

haven't talked about it backstage or anything, but We'll be talking about that. The hope

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:35

here is that you'll pick something up for your business as well as we talk

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:38

through some of the challenges that I'm facing. Joining me on this side

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:42

is Jennifer Longworth with Bourbon Barrel Podcasting. You didn't say who

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:46

you were, by the way. Oh, okay. I'm Brian. You can find me at top

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:49

tier audio.com, which you may or may not wanna do this call. We'll see. And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:53

then we have actually 3 special guests. All of them are from Tansy

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:56

Astra Academy, and you might recognize Tara And, also, Jesse, they've both

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:00

been on the show, and then we've also got Amanda joining us on the side

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:03

where my arm is sticking off the camera. So welcome to the 3

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:07

of you. So I'm the newbie here is what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:10

Yeah. You're the newbie, but that's okay because we're kind and gentle or something like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:14

that. Anyway, On the last episode of the Podcast Editor's Mastermind, we were

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:18

talking about some of the things that are going on in our business, and I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:21

shared that I'd faced some recent business challenges through the course of last

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:24

year. Business had declined for a number of reasons that had to do

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:28

with people stopping production, all that kind of stuff. And we said, hey. Maybe on

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:31

the next episode, we'll put Brian in the hot seat. I said,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:35

okay. And then the next day, Jesse reached out and said, hey. This is the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:38

kind of stuff that we do at Tanziastro Academy. Would you mind if we came

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:41

on the show and talked to you about it? So that's what we've done. With

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:45

that, I'm gonna try and get out of the way and let the 3 of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:47

them Make this into something useful. So I'm gonna pass it on to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:01:50

you. So you were talking about just

Jesse McCune: 00:01:54

problems you were You were trying to plan for 2024.

Jesse McCune: 00:01:58

Yeah. You said you were looking at pricing,

Jesse McCune: 00:02:02

marketing. I think there were a couple other things we'll get

Jesse McCune: 00:02:05

to. So, Tara, actually, Amanda,

Jesse McCune: 00:02:09

you and I can start with the pricing stuff. The first thing I wanna

Amanda McCune: 00:02:13

say, though, Brian, is you are not the only person who is dealing with this

Amanda McCune: 00:02:16

at all. This is very common what you're talking about. People who've been in

Amanda McCune: 00:02:20

business for decades run into the same issues you're talking about, so

Amanda McCune: 00:02:24

it's not a it's not a Brian specific issue that's going on.

Amanda McCune: 00:02:28

But pricing, I I feel like pricing is always the really

Amanda McCune: 00:02:31

tricky part because you wanna be competitive, but you want

Amanda McCune: 00:02:35

to make sure that you can get the clients, and you have to make sure

Amanda McCune: 00:02:39

you're not working twice as hard for the same amount

Amanda McCune: 00:02:42

as other people, and it's there's no right answer. You can't just Google

Amanda McCune: 00:02:46

what should my prices be, and then you're good to go. Though a lot of

Amanda McCune: 00:02:50

it, I think, just it comes into getting to know your clients, really talking

Amanda McCune: 00:02:54

to people, trying to find those people who will be honest about

Amanda McCune: 00:02:57

what They can afford to pay what they see value in

Amanda McCune: 00:03:02

how you can differentiate yourself from others, but it takes Time

Amanda McCune: 00:03:06

to build those relationships. I think sometimes people get in the, I need sales.

Amanda McCune: 00:03:10

I need a client right now. They're offering half of what I know that I'm

Amanda McCune: 00:03:13

worth, But I need the work right now, so I'm gonna take it. And that

Amanda McCune: 00:03:16

just kinda gets you in a trap, but usually, if you're able to talk to

Amanda McCune: 00:03:20

somebody and get to understand well, I

Amanda McCune: 00:03:24

offer the these same services as other people, but I offer them in a

Amanda McCune: 00:03:28

different way that might serve you better. But the communication

Amanda McCune: 00:03:31

has to be there. You have to get them first, which is where Tara

Amanda McCune: 00:03:35

and the marketing probably comes in. But And then

Jesse McCune: 00:03:39

AI is changing all of this too, and so

Jesse McCune: 00:03:43

many of us have, like, package pricing. And I think

Jesse McCune: 00:03:47

we need to start shifting away from thinking of packages

Jesse McCune: 00:03:50

as in the what that we do and more in the how.

Jesse McCune: 00:03:54

Start looking at offering levels of

Jesse McCune: 00:03:58

service where we focus more on giving

Jesse McCune: 00:04:01

premium service to those who pay The premium,

Jesse McCune: 00:04:05

having a standard service where it's a lot more we're

Jesse McCune: 00:04:09

using AI wherever we can to have a

Jesse McCune: 00:04:12

more efficient workflow because whether we

Jesse McCune: 00:04:16

like it or not, trying to sell people on the

Jesse McCune: 00:04:20

importance of quality is difficult enough now.

Jesse McCune: 00:04:24

Wait another year, 2, 3 years down the road. It's going to

Jesse McCune: 00:04:28

be almost impossible to try to tell people

Jesse McCune: 00:04:31

why they need to be hiring us to do all of

Jesse McCune: 00:04:35

this manual high quality work when they can't hear the

Jesse McCune: 00:04:39

difference. So there's a lot of things kind of in

Jesse McCune: 00:04:42

flux right now in the podcast editing space,

Jesse McCune: 00:04:46

and it's just kind of a matter of figuring out What value

Jesse McCune: 00:04:50

can we offer to clients that can't be replaced by

Jesse McCune: 00:04:53

AI? If we really look at it, production

Jesse McCune: 00:04:57

work is at the bottom rung of the overall

Jesse McCune: 00:05:01

ladder. If we want to do better with

Jesse McCune: 00:05:04

making income, We need to find ways to move higher up

Jesse McCune: 00:05:08

that ladder so that we're not focused primarily on

Jesse McCune: 00:05:12

the production. I mean, this has been kind of the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:16

underpinning of conversations over the last year. Right? And it feels

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:19

a little bit like, Yeah. I know that, but,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:23

also, I don't really know how to think about some of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:27

this yet. There are certain parts of my workflow that do

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:31

Include some AI tools. I think I probably use some of the same tools that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:34

Jesse does, which help with some parts of this. But there's still

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:37

in everything that I do, there's a a human element. I was actually having

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:41

a client call yesterday, and they were talking about using Descript.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:45

And because I've used Descript before, I was able to ask a couple of questions

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:48

about some shortcomings of that software and highlight how I can do that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:52

better. But at the same time, like, I can't see myself ever

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:56

offering what I would call only service. And I hate to pick on

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:00

that software, but, you know, the automated removals and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:03

whatever it didn't properly scribe is assumed to be silent, and so you're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:07

missing stuff here and there. Like, I can't see that ever being something that I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:11

would offer, and so I'm a little bit uncertain to think about How I would

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:14

think about different levels of service and differentiation as it relates

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:18

to pricing. One of the ways is to Look at

Jesse McCune: 00:06:22

the different services you offer and figure out what

Jesse McCune: 00:06:25

stuff can we use more AI heavy,

Jesse McCune: 00:06:29

what stuff I mean, we know tools are going to keep getting

Jesse McCune: 00:06:32

better. Right now, the editing itself is the one thing that's

Jesse McCune: 00:06:36

going to be Difficult to move to strictly AI

Jesse McCune: 00:06:40

because more clients are looking for people

Jesse McCune: 00:06:44

who can offer everything, show notes,

Jesse McCune: 00:06:48

whatever the services are. Are there things we

Jesse McCune: 00:06:52

can use AI to be able to offer

Jesse McCune: 00:06:55

those without adding significantly to the price so we can

Jesse McCune: 00:06:59

still compete without making everything

Jesse McCune: 00:07:03

focusing on AI everything. So we

Jesse McCune: 00:07:06

use, like, AI for show notes and descriptions,

Jesse McCune: 00:07:10

titles, stuff like that, Not really adding a whole lot to the

Jesse McCune: 00:07:14

cost, so we can focus on the manual work we need to

Jesse McCune: 00:07:18

do. So is that kind of streamlining planning your internal processes so

Amanda McCune: 00:07:22

you're spending less time doing the work so you don't have

Amanda McCune: 00:07:26

to charge quite so much. Because if you can get into that flow where, Okay.

Amanda McCune: 00:07:29

I can use these AI tools. It cuts a lot of the manual time, then

Amanda McCune: 00:07:33

you're not feeling as crunched. Well, I have this show, and now I have to

Amanda McCune: 00:07:36

spend all of this time doing this. And then I have do these show notes,

Amanda McCune: 00:07:39

and I have to do all of this stuff, and then it becomes more

Amanda McCune: 00:07:43

time intense per each client. Is it kinda using those

Amanda McCune: 00:07:47

processes producer the amount of time you have to spend

Amanda McCune: 00:07:51

on the same thing so you don't feel like you have to keep charging more

Amanda McCune: 00:07:55

to balance your time. Because it's kind of a time management thing too. Right? Like,

Amanda McCune: 00:07:58

you're 1 person. You can only take on you only have so many hours,

Amanda McCune: 00:08:03

and it's being able to allocate those hours in a way that

Amanda McCune: 00:08:06

helps you a little bit more. And sometimes it's not even

Jesse McCune: 00:08:10

tools related to editing. There's the whole back end

Jesse McCune: 00:08:14

process, client interaction. If there's ways we

Jesse McCune: 00:08:18

can streamline the back end of the business, that helps us

Jesse McCune: 00:08:22

as well. If if I can ask, what are the some of the things that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:25

you've been able to streamline from the back end? Because I like to think mine

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:28

is pretty streamlined, but, hey, I only know my business. We're in the middle

Jesse McCune: 00:08:32

of transitioning over to HoneyBook where we can

Jesse McCune: 00:08:35

basically Automate the entire process from

Jesse McCune: 00:08:39

the time they go to our website, they click a

Jesse McCune: 00:08:43

link, they can book a call, We can gather information from

Jesse McCune: 00:08:46

them, give then, say, have a

Jesse McCune: 00:08:50

discovery call with them, provide them a quote with different

Jesse McCune: 00:08:54

manager, they can choose the package. Once they choose

Jesse McCune: 00:08:57

that, they get invoiced, then they get their

Jesse McCune: 00:09:01

the client agreement. We can automate the onboarding

Jesse McCune: 00:09:05

producer. So that's one of the things we're working on

Jesse McCune: 00:09:08

right now as opposed to Having our contracts

Jesse McCune: 00:09:12

and PandaDoc and trying to bring everything into one

Jesse McCune: 00:09:16

place where we can automate as much of that process as possible.

Jesse McCune: 00:09:21

Okay. Yeah. I guess I was thinking more in terms of, like, the ongoing client

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:24

interactions like file delivery, that kind of stuff. But that's a it's a good another

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:28

good take on it. They have these fun portals where you can upload files

Tara Kelly: 00:09:32

and communicate that way to HoneyBook? And you can actually link it to your

Tara Kelly: 00:09:35

Gmail account. If you have, like, your or if you have, like, Google Workspace for

Tara Kelly: 00:09:39

your email, you can connect to that so you can sync your calendars

Tara Kelly: 00:09:43

and all of that fun stuff. That's HoneyBook as well? Mhmm. Yeah. Oh,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:47

wow. Okay. I guess I need to go check them out again. It does come

Amanda McCune: 00:09:50

as as an expense. You know? We always try to keep your overhead low,

Amanda McCune: 00:09:54

but It's that whole time time versus money. I

Amanda McCune: 00:09:58

mean, both have the the value, but it's if you're able to,

Amanda McCune: 00:10:02

maybe you spend the, And I don't actually know what HoneyBook costs, but you spend

Amanda McCune: 00:10:05

a little bit per month and but you don't have to put

Amanda McCune: 00:10:09

as much time and energy into all that back end and stuff. Now you have

Amanda McCune: 00:10:12

more hours available that you can do the marketing things that you

Amanda McCune: 00:10:16

don't really wanna do, but you know you need to, or maybe that's the time

Amanda McCune: 00:10:19

that you get to spend with your personal things that you wanna do,

Amanda McCune: 00:10:23

but it's sometimes that extra cost is going to be

Amanda McCune: 00:10:27

minimal when you compare it to the amount of time you save. Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:30

I I can totally see that. I was actually looking through my books earlier,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:35

and, one of the things that I discovered was one of the Most significant

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:38

expenses I had last year, which wasn't a huge surprise, was subcontractors

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:42

because I had some people working on some shows for me. And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:46

because the business has kind of declined, I've had to stop doing

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:50

that as you would expect. Right? You have to preserve the margin, And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:53

so maybe there are some ways that this kind of automation could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:57

reduce the need for that. I don't know that I would ever get back 2

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:00

hours per episode, but maybe there's enough there. Why do you think your business

Tara Kelly: 00:11:04

declined this year? Because I'm hearing it a lot across the board, and it seems

Tara Kelly: 00:11:08

like it's for similar reasons. A combination of client life

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:12

changes and different directions. So there was I didn't have any clients

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:15

that said I'm leaving you for another editor, but what I did have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:19

was Three shows that were through a production company,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:23

and that company stopped operations so I lost those

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:27

shows Because they're not making them anymore. And then I had 2

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:30

others where the hosts just stopped producing the show. You know,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:34

they just said, hey. I'm done. It wasn't a whole lot of I'm losing them

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:37

to Jennifer or to Daniel or to Jesse. It

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:41

was a lot of we're stopping the show. Won't need you anymore because we're not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:45

gonna pay you to not produce a show. Right? So that's kind of the driving

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:48

factor for me. I mean, I could guess at the overarching

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:52

Stuff. But I think it's it's really just the clients changing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:56

Right? Yeah. I guess I should all say on the on the personal side, Once

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:00

this started going, I didn't do a ton to go and try recapturing business.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:03

I mean, I did put myself out there a little bit, and I did have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:06

a number of client calls where Things

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:10

just didn't line up and never really got any feedback. You know, is it price,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:13

or is it you decided you didn't need an editor. I never really got that,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:16

but Didn't replace them with anything during the year, which is how we got

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:20

here. So I think that's a nice segue into marketing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:25

Sure. I was just gonna say, I I think when

Tara Kelly: 00:12:29

people are fearing the, you know, recession coming, when

Tara Kelly: 00:12:33

we keep hearing the r word, when we keep hearing People are losing jobs. I

Tara Kelly: 00:12:36

mean, every time I sign on to LinkedIn, there's another layoff announcement, or

Tara Kelly: 00:12:40

my feed is just filled with more and more of my colleagues being laid off.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:44

Mhmm. My connection's being laid off. There's a lot of fear in the

Tara Kelly: 00:12:47

air, and I think oftentimes the first place

Tara Kelly: 00:12:51

people start to cut budgets is in

Tara Kelly: 00:12:55

creative marketing. And one of the things I hear and I've

Tara Kelly: 00:12:59

heard a lot this year over and over when it comes to podcasting,

Tara Kelly: 00:13:02

when have talked to prospects when I've talked to clients, and I ask,

Tara Kelly: 00:13:06

have you considered podcasting? Well, we did in the past,

Tara Kelly: 00:13:10

but it was a lot of work and a lot of cost, and we

Tara Kelly: 00:13:14

didn't see the return on investment. We couldn't really trace

Tara Kelly: 00:13:18

how it was helping us with our business or how it was, you know,

Tara Kelly: 00:13:21

helping us with conversions or getting us clients, so we stopped

Tara Kelly: 00:13:25

because it just seemed like too much work and too much time. I've heard that

Tara Kelly: 00:13:28

Over and over. And so when we're in this time period where there's a lot

Tara Kelly: 00:13:32

of fear and penny pinching, People are

Tara Kelly: 00:13:36

like, okay. I don't need the podcast anymore. Let's just stop that.

Tara Kelly: 00:13:39

So in the marketing and branding world, we call that threats. Like, we

Tara Kelly: 00:13:43

when we look for threats threats to our business when we do that

Tara Kelly: 00:13:47

little SWAT chart. Are you familiar with that? Mhmm. I think that might be the

Tara Kelly: 00:13:51

case here. Be and not necessarily that There's there was something

Tara Kelly: 00:13:54

wrong with your service or they weren't happy with your service. It does seem

Tara Kelly: 00:13:58

like a pattern across the board right now. So you

Tara Kelly: 00:14:02

said that you work a full time job and you're traveling

Tara Kelly: 00:14:06

a lot. A little more travel this year. Yeah. How many

Tara Kelly: 00:14:10

hours a week Would you say you have to devote to your

Tara Kelly: 00:14:14

podcast business? In the past, I've been doing about 10 hours

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:18

a week. It's significantly less right now because I don't have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:22

the work to fill the time. But, yeah, 10, sometimes up to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:25

15. That once I got to 15 is where things kinda got a little

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:29

shaky, and so that's when I started bringing in contractors because it it got to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:32

be a little bit much. And then I discovered that I only get, like, a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:35

50% return on having the contractor because I still have to go back and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:39

review stuff, and there's an administrative overhead on that, but I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:43

got back sometime. So you feel like 10 to 15 hours a week

Tara Kelly: 00:14:47

is about your limit. If you were to get the clients back, that's

Tara Kelly: 00:14:51

the most you could spend right now while working full time? I think

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:55

that's I mean, I don't know that I would ever say the most. Right? Because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:58

there's probably a chance you could find something else here and there, but that seems

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:02

to be what was sustainable. And I'll call it nearly healthy.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:06

I don't know that it was truly healthy, but at least nearly healthy. Okay. So

Tara Kelly: 00:15:09

it says your you said your ultimate dream, at least by

Tara Kelly: 00:15:13

2027 would be to have a full fledged

Tara Kelly: 00:15:16

production business. Mhmm. Now Is is

Tara Kelly: 00:15:20

your goal to eventually have your own business full time and

Tara Kelly: 00:15:24

that be your main focus? Yeah. I find that as The

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:27

business grows. It becomes harder to maintain focus between the job and the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:31

business. And so, like, when it's small, it's easier. When it gets bigger,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:35

it's harder. So there's Eventually, you can't you can't have 2 full time

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:39

things. Right? Or at least I can't. Maybe other people can. What does the

Tara Kelly: 00:15:42

production business look like? Does it have employees? Is it almost like an

Tara Kelly: 00:15:46

agency, or is it just you and some contractors still? So, I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:50

mean, that's partly what I've been struggling with because And maybe some of this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:53

is presumption, but it's hard for me to imagine being able

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:57

to have a level of stability and provide stability for my clients

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:01

without having at least contractors or some level of employees. And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:05

my experience so far has been that, contractors

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:09

are expensive, Then they should be. Right? Because they're good at what they do,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:13

but there's a lot of not that I've had employees, but, you know, there's some

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:16

additional overhead or additional administration from having employees.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:20

So I'm not super firm on what that would need to be. I just feel

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:23

like I shouldn't be the only person in the business ultimately

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:27

Producer because it all relies on me.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:30

And as much as I enjoy doing the work, I don't think that's right thing

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:34

for the clients, and I'm not sure that it's the right thing long term because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:37

I would hate to get sick for a week and have all my clients miss

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:40

their deadlines because I'm not there. Right? And, conversely, I'd

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:44

hate to reach out to Jesse and a couple of other editors and say, can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:47

you do all of these this week? By the way, I don't have any guidelines

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:50

for you. Just figure it out. Like, that's Not only expensive, but it's not right

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:54

for them, and it's not right for the client. So, like, I feel like there's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:56

gotta be a sweet spot there for me somewhere. Do you always wanna do

Tara Kelly: 00:17:00

production? Yeah. That's part of the problem. Right? You enjoy

Tara Kelly: 00:17:04

it? I do. Yeah. There's just something about it. I mean, like anything, it

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:07

you get into it, and sometimes you're not really feeling it. But, yeah, I love

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:10

it. I really do. So it sounds like the perfect scenario

Tara Kelly: 00:17:14

for you. You get to continue doing what you love production, but you would have

Tara Kelly: 00:17:18

help so you're not overwhelmed, and you can have ample vacation

Tara Kelly: 00:17:21

each year. Yeah. You can have that flexibility to take time off when

Tara Kelly: 00:17:25

you need it and have you know, be with your family, have that work, life

Tara Kelly: 00:17:28

balance. Yeah. So I think the first question is thinking through

Tara Kelly: 00:17:32

what would it take to get there? How many clients would that be? What would

Tara Kelly: 00:17:36

that look like? What would you need to make? Right now, you said, you know,

Tara Kelly: 00:17:40

you're look you want it to at least be comparable with your full time role.

Tara Kelly: 00:17:43

Right? Yeah. I mean, it it would need to be pretty close, or I'd have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:46

to have some really hard conversations with my wife. Right? Because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:50

we have kids and and a house and stuff. Right?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:53

So, I can't just abdicate that responsibility

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:57

because I wanna go chase my dreams. So, yeah, it has to be close. Yeah.

Tara Kelly: 00:18:00

And without throwing out exact numbers, how Sorry. I can't

Tara Kelly: 00:18:04

word this right. What percentage of your business income

Tara Kelly: 00:18:08

is, your full time income? Doing math in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:12

my head, which is a pretty bad thing to do. I would say as of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:15

last year, it was probably 10 to 15%,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:19

But the business declined through the year. And I'm also thinking profit,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:23

not gross revenue. And the year prior, it was probably

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:27

closer to 20 to 25%, somewhere in that range. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:31

think like, job went up, business went down, so that widens

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:34

the gap. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's one of those things that's gonna

Tara Kelly: 00:18:38

take time to build. It's gonna take time to get up to equal what you're

Tara Kelly: 00:18:42

currently making in your full time income. Yeah. And I'll say, like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:46

maybe this is just me, but I can't foresee how I could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:49

truly get up to parity at a part time level. Like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:53

there would have to be some kind of plan to close the gap,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:57

or I'd have to be building out that employee base or whatever that looks like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:59

in terms of support Because I can't I can't foresee something

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:03

where 10 editing only clients would ever get me

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:06

to anywhere near what I would need to be even if I was charging

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:10

Well, maybe with super premium rates. I don't know. I mean, it depends on what

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:13

you can get people to pay, but how long will they pay that? Right? I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:16

mean, somebody might be willing to pay $1,000 an episode for an audio only

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:19

edit Right now? 2 years from now, probably not. And that that's

Tara Kelly: 00:19:23

Amanda's expert. She is the expert of all things money, so

Tara Kelly: 00:19:27

I'll let her delve into that a little bit more. But the first part when

Tara Kelly: 00:19:31

you're thinking about brand and marketing is really clarifying those

Tara Kelly: 00:19:34

goals, figuring that part out, figuring out, okay, I

Tara Kelly: 00:19:38

have a ways to go before I can match my full time income. I'm not

Tara Kelly: 00:19:42

gonna do it all this year because that's not realistic. So how many clients

Tara Kelly: 00:19:45

do I wanna have this year? How many clients do I wanna have next year?

Tara Kelly: 00:19:49

What do I wanna be doing? What does that look like? Do I

Tara Kelly: 00:19:53

want to be managing employees? Would I feel more comfortable just

Tara Kelly: 00:19:56

having contractors that help me out when I need the help? You know, thinking through

Tara Kelly: 00:20:00

all that because managing and bringing on employees isn't for everyone. It

Tara Kelly: 00:20:03

could feel like a huge responsibility. Other people are like, yep. I

Tara Kelly: 00:20:07

wanna scale up. I wanna have a whole agency. I wanna go.

Tara Kelly: 00:20:12

So thinking about Where do you fit there? What's gonna

Tara Kelly: 00:20:15

be best for you? And then thinking about what income you

Tara Kelly: 00:20:19

ideally want to make and then planning toward that

Tara Kelly: 00:20:23

and thinking, okay. Well, what marketing activities can I

Tara Kelly: 00:20:26

do that will help me reach these exact goals? Because then it'll help

Tara Kelly: 00:20:30

you measure what your marketing efforts are doing

Tara Kelly: 00:20:34

for you. So in terms of, let's say and I'm just gonna throw this out.

Tara Kelly: 00:20:37

Let's say your goal this year was to get 20 clients. And right

Tara Kelly: 00:20:41

now, you have 0 clients. So where do you

Tara Kelly: 00:20:44

start? The first thing you'd wanna really look at is,

Tara Kelly: 00:20:48

okay, Is my messaging working for me? Do I really understand

Tara Kelly: 00:20:52

my target audience? Do I know where to find them? So I'll

Tara Kelly: 00:20:55

ask that of you. Do you have a certain niche? Do you have

Tara Kelly: 00:20:59

a certain type of client that you've worked with, that you

Tara Kelly: 00:21:03

loved working with, and you want a 100 more of them? Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:07

So that's kind of where I've been stuck. I've really enjoyed working with the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:11

indie podcasters. I'll call it the 1 person show

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:14

Or a couple person show. Right? So you get to work with the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:18

showrunner. You don't work with a committee. I really prefer that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:22

However, my experience has been most of them don't have the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:25

budget to support the kind of editing that they actually want. So that's always been

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:29

the gap. So I have worked with a large company. We'll see

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:33

if that continues. I don't know. Their show is on hiatus, so we'll we'll see

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:36

if that ever comes back. I enjoyed that because I was still working with the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:39

showrunner even though it was a larger company, but then you've got the issue of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:43

payment terms. Right? You you never get prepayment from a large company. You

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:47

get net 30 if you're lucky. Right? And so there's some some

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:51

stuff I'm trying to work through, but I would say I like working with the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:53

showrunner. I don't necessarily have a specific niche. I would

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:57

prefer people with a larger budget, business owners, that kinda thing, but not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:01

necessarily Not necessarily tied to, like, the coaching community or

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:04

the whatever. I I don't really have a preference there.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:08

I just wanna work with people that are passionate about what they do and can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:11

pay. That's the tricky part. Are there any

Tara Kelly: 00:22:15

topics that have really fascinated you? So, I mean, one of the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:19

shows that I worked on was Focusrite's show, where

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:23

they interview audio engineers because I love audio. That's super interesting to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:26

me. I was also really surprised that they would have outsourced their production because it's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:30

a whole company of audio people, but they did, and I'm good with that. The

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:34

other one that really surprised me was I have 1 client right now that basically

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:37

just Interviews people about things, doctors, whatever.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:41

It's just who she met and what what they can and, surprisingly,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:45

Like, she's probably 15 years older than I am, something like that. But the topics

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:49

that she's choosing, even though it's not what I would normally listen to, I get

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:52

done editing every episode. I'm like, I'm smarter because of what she did. So, like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:56

it's just things I can learn about, I guess. I wish I was more

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:00

specific. I really do. You just wanna learn new things. What do you

Tara Kelly: 00:23:03

really love about working with the indie show runners

Tara Kelly: 00:23:07

specifically? Yeah. I mean, they care about what they're doing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:11

They enjoy what they're doing. If they didn't, they'd just stop. I mean,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:15

for lack of a better they bring it or they don't. And they the ones

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:18

that I've worked with, they generally do. They care about growing their show. They

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:23

most of most of the ones that I work with care about the audio quality,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:26

care about the show quality. Some of them, I haven't ended up with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:29

anybody that wishes they could just hold my hand while I do the editing for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:33

them. Like, can you like, they're not super control freaks. I don't have any of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:36

this whole we have to deal with legal or any of that stuff. It's just

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:39

nice to work with the showrunner. I I think that's a lot of it right

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:43

there. Yeah. I'm what I'm hearing is you love working with, like, passionate

Tara Kelly: 00:23:47

thought leaders and mentors Mhmm. Who love what they

Tara Kelly: 00:23:50

do, who love to teach and educate others

Tara Kelly: 00:23:54

and really want to keep growing and really

Tara Kelly: 00:23:58

care about the quality of their podcast and the quality of what they put out

Tara Kelly: 00:24:02

there. Like you said, they really care about what they do. So I

Tara Kelly: 00:24:05

think when you're thinking about your messaging, when you're

Tara Kelly: 00:24:09

thinking about your marketing, starting there, What would they

Tara Kelly: 00:24:12

really resonate with? Because you really resonate with them. What kind of

Tara Kelly: 00:24:16

messaging would draw them in talking about Those things talking

Tara Kelly: 00:24:20

about I work with podcasters who really care about what they

Tara Kelly: 00:24:23

do. I work with mentors. I'm a, you know, insatiable

Tara Kelly: 00:24:27

learner myself, And, you know, I love

Tara Kelly: 00:24:31

working with people who are passionate about these topics and passionate about educating

Tara Kelly: 00:24:35

their community. I'm just spitballing right now. But these are

Tara Kelly: 00:24:39

this is where you can start really connecting with the people

Tara Kelly: 00:24:43

you wanna be working with in terms of your

Tara Kelly: 00:24:46

external presence. Right? The other piece of it is

Tara Kelly: 00:24:50

doing that market research. It helps to know who

Tara Kelly: 00:24:54

you wanna work with, who you like working with. So you mentioned the indie

Tara Kelly: 00:24:58

showrunner, but thinking about, okay, which one of

Tara Kelly: 00:25:02

them has the budget? What are the ones who have the budget

Tara Kelly: 00:25:05

to pay for my quality of work? Where do they exist? Where do they live?

Tara Kelly: 00:25:09

Where can I find them? So thinking through that

Tara Kelly: 00:25:12

piece of it, where do these

Tara Kelly: 00:25:16

showrunners hang out online? Do you know? No.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:20

Because if I did, I would totally be there.

Tara Kelly: 00:25:24

Well, where did you find them? One of them was a referral from,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:29

Well, same person. So Jesse went through the podcast

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:32

engineering school. That's how I found the Focusrite Show is through that. It was a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:36

referral through that. One of them was just a random

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:39

post in a podcasting group where somebody said I'm looking for an editor,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:43

and Somebody, I think it might have been Steve Stewart, tagged me and said, hey.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:47

He lives in Nashville. You should talk to him because I think it was the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:50

Nashville group. It was it was that kinda thing. Almost all of the people

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:53

I've found have either been referrals or somebody that I've

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:57

interacted with online, generally in one of the Facebook groups for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:00

podcast, because I love those people even though, you know, there's a a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:04

zillion editors in there. Every once in a while, I find 1, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:26:08

they actually wanna work with me. I I don't know why. I mean, you mentioned

Tara Kelly: 00:26:12

passion for audio, so maybe you can start

Tara Kelly: 00:26:15

there. Because it's easiest when you can at

Tara Kelly: 00:26:19

least think of, Hey. I'd really like to do more

Tara Kelly: 00:26:22

shows about audio, or I'd really like to do more shows about, I'm

Tara Kelly: 00:26:26

just throwing this out here, like marketing or music. If

Tara Kelly: 00:26:30

you have topics you already know you like in

Tara Kelly: 00:26:33

industries that you feel drawn to for one reason or manager,

Tara Kelly: 00:26:37

it helps when you're doing that research to be able to start with something because

Tara Kelly: 00:26:40

it's easier than to pinpoint where Those people might hang

Tara Kelly: 00:26:44

out and join those groups and join those communities. I find

Tara Kelly: 00:26:48

people have a lot of luck joining groups and just

Tara Kelly: 00:26:51

participating, engaging, and not selling anything, just being part of

Tara Kelly: 00:26:55

those groups on, you know, community. There's Discord groups, for

Tara Kelly: 00:26:59

instance. There's Facebook groups. There is Reddit.

Tara Kelly: 00:27:03

Like, you can find just about any topic you would

Tara Kelly: 00:27:06

ever want to know about, join. It doesn't matter what it is.

Tara Kelly: 00:27:10

Type it in. You will find it. You will find a

Tara Kelly: 00:27:14

whole group thread about it. But it it really is. It's

Tara Kelly: 00:27:17

a good place to start and really think

Tara Kelly: 00:27:21

of to start your research and gather that information

Tara Kelly: 00:27:26

And meet people and talk to people. The other thing that

Tara Kelly: 00:27:29

really helps is if you have, you know, communicate you're

Tara Kelly: 00:27:33

still communicating with former clients or current clients or you have good

Tara Kelly: 00:27:37

relationships with people who, hey. If they read a podcast, you'd love to work

Tara Kelly: 00:27:41

with them, being able to talk to them. Just say, hey.

Tara Kelly: 00:27:44

Would you have a coffee with me in person virtual depending on the

Tara Kelly: 00:27:48

situation? And just ask them about their day. Ask them about their challenges.

Tara Kelly: 00:27:52

Ask them, Like, if they were to run a podcast,

Tara Kelly: 00:27:56

what would they be concerned about? What would they wanna do? It's just being

Tara Kelly: 00:27:59

curious, learning about them So you have a better

Tara Kelly: 00:28:02

idea again of how to talk to them, how to communicate with them. So for

Tara Kelly: 00:28:06

instance, if you're setting up, like, a funnel on your website,

Tara Kelly: 00:28:10

you know what offers to make them that are really gonna entice the

Tara Kelly: 00:28:14

types of people you want to work with. So a lot of marketing isn't

Tara Kelly: 00:28:18

necessarily just writing a bunch of blogs and posting a bunch of

Tara Kelly: 00:28:21

social media. It's really connecting with and getting to know the people you you

Tara Kelly: 00:28:25

wanna work with and talk to. So those are 2 things that I might

Tara Kelly: 00:28:29

start with. Just figure out and get a clearer

Tara Kelly: 00:28:33

picture of What you want to do, where you wanna go, and who

Tara Kelly: 00:28:36

you wanna be working with. And I know that's hard when you're just a curious

Tara Kelly: 00:28:40

person and you wanna learn everything because I'm the same way. So many people have

Tara Kelly: 00:28:43

asked me, you know, Tara, you need to niche down with marketing? And I'm

Tara Kelly: 00:28:47

a marketer. And I'm like, I I Amanda's laughing because

Tara Kelly: 00:28:51

she knows. I'm like, I I love working with

Tara Kelly: 00:28:54

nonprofits. I love working with creatives. I love working

Tara Kelly: 00:28:58

with so many different types of people in industries, and I've I've

Tara Kelly: 00:29:02

enjoyed doing that. And when somebody asked me niche down, That's a

Tara Kelly: 00:29:06

little stressful because I'm like, I don't know. But I found

Tara Kelly: 00:29:09

it's much easier to just pinpoint 1 industry

Tara Kelly: 00:29:14

and start there and see how I like it. And if I

Tara Kelly: 00:29:17

feel like, you know what? I wanna work with other types of people, I can.

Tara Kelly: 00:29:21

I can branch out from there because it's so much easier to start

Tara Kelly: 00:29:24

smaller and mark it there and grow than it is to

Tara Kelly: 00:29:28

try and just say, oh, I'll work with anybody. You know?

Tara Kelly: 00:29:32

I just love people. I love connecting with people. You can say that, But it's

Tara Kelly: 00:29:35

a little bit harder to target your messaging and your emails

Tara Kelly: 00:29:39

if you wanna do that. And the last thing I'll talk about, because I feel

Tara Kelly: 00:29:42

like I'm taking up too much time on marketing, But, is

Tara Kelly: 00:29:46

really thinking through your prospect journey, so

Tara Kelly: 00:29:50

to speak, and what you're willing to do

Tara Kelly: 00:29:54

marketing wise. What are your passions? Because it's not helpful

Tara Kelly: 00:29:58

to do the things you don't love doing when it comes to marketing. Because if

Tara Kelly: 00:30:01

somebody says, well, you you need to write 5 blogs a month,

Tara Kelly: 00:30:05

Brian. How do you feel about that? Does that Make you excited?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:09

No. Makes me the opposite

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:13

of excited. Exactly. What about if I said

Tara Kelly: 00:30:17

you have to produce 1 podcast episode a

Tara Kelly: 00:30:20

month talking about what you love and what's on your mind? That sounds a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:24

little more interesting. It sounds a little more interesting. So it's about figuring

Tara Kelly: 00:30:28

that out too. Yeah. You know, what are the things that you love doing

Tara Kelly: 00:30:32

that you can put out there that are helping people, informing

Tara Kelly: 00:30:36

people, educating people. I think the show is a really good part of

Tara Kelly: 00:30:39

that Because people get to know you, they get to know your personality,

Tara Kelly: 00:30:43

and that goes a long way. Yeah. I love doing this show. I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:47

I honestly do. I mean, we struggle a little bit internally because we're always thinking,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:51

like, this doesn't really point anybody else back to our businesses. Right? Because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:54

our audience is Editor and producers.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:59

So we're we're basically upskilling our competition, but we love them. So,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:02

like, how do we not do that? Right? But that's a wonderful thing. You're helping

Tara Kelly: 00:31:06

people, and you're actually growing

Tara Kelly: 00:31:10

your peep people's trust in you and your brand because they see that

Tara Kelly: 00:31:14

you're doing that, and you're not doing it to sell anything. You're just doing

Tara Kelly: 00:31:18

it because you love doing it, and it comes across as authentic and

Tara Kelly: 00:31:21

real, and I would wanna work with you. Sorry, Jesse.

Amanda McCune: 00:31:26

It's fine. I'm used to it. Well, I'd say

Tara Kelly: 00:31:30

the same thing about Jesse. You both have that. You're both authentic. You both love

Tara Kelly: 00:31:34

educating and just helping people for the sake of helping people. And

Tara Kelly: 00:31:38

who doesn't wanna work with people like that? You know? I mean, that is all

Tara Kelly: 00:31:41

part of branding and marketing. It's you're already doing it.

Tara Kelly: 00:31:45

It's more just thinking about, okay, what Avenues are gonna work best for

Tara Kelly: 00:31:49

me. Thank you. And that kinda ties into, though, like you said, you're building

Amanda McCune: 00:31:53

this community. Say you and Jesse have a lot of things in common. As

Amanda McCune: 00:31:57

you do build your business and you get to that point where you need to

Amanda McCune: 00:32:00

have somebody else because you can't be the only person doing the work all the

Amanda McCune: 00:32:04

time, you need to go on that trip, You had mentioned that you, you

Amanda McCune: 00:32:08

know, sometimes have to hire a contractor, but then you

Amanda McCune: 00:32:13

and all of that. So if you have somebody like I'm just gonna keep using

Amanda McCune: 00:32:16

Jesse because his face is right there, and he's the person to use for

Amanda McCune: 00:32:20

that. But If you and Jesse could probably come to some kind of

Amanda McCune: 00:32:23

agreement that would work, that if you work in similar ways, you

Amanda McCune: 00:32:27

care about people in the same way because it's really hard to find somebody that

Amanda McCune: 00:32:31

you trust that can do your work. Like you said, you even

Amanda McCune: 00:32:35

go back, and you kinda have to check the contractor's work because

Amanda McCune: 00:32:38

it's They're your clients, and you have a certain level of quality

Amanda McCune: 00:32:42

that you want to deliver. It's really, really hard to get to

Amanda McCune: 00:32:46

that point where you trust somebody else to do that same level of

Amanda McCune: 00:32:50

quality so you don't have to go check their work. And I I you'd

Amanda McCune: 00:32:53

say that from from my it took me years years years to find somebody in

Amanda McCune: 00:32:57

in my production work, which is more in TV and film, but finding

Amanda McCune: 00:33:01

somebody who I could actually just say, okay. You go handle this. I'm not

Amanda McCune: 00:33:05

going to worry about it. You're gonna take care of it. You're gonna do it

Amanda McCune: 00:33:07

in a way that I'm comfortable with. I don't have to second guess what you're

Amanda McCune: 00:33:10

doing. We're okay here. But having somebody like that

Amanda McCune: 00:33:14

eventually and I think a community like this, you're building that that

Amanda McCune: 00:33:18

networking thing, not just in terms of clients, because once you get a Client's

Amanda McCune: 00:33:21

word-of-mouth goes probably further than anything as far

Amanda McCune: 00:33:25

you know, you find somebody like, oh, well, this guy does really good work for

Amanda McCune: 00:33:28

me. Oh, You they then they hear somebody who might be looking for an

Amanda McCune: 00:33:32

editor, and they'll refer you. But also on the internal business

Amanda McCune: 00:33:35

side, If you have someone else that can help you with maybe the things that

Amanda McCune: 00:33:39

you don't like. Like you said, maybe maybe Jesse loves blogs. I I don't

Amanda McCune: 00:33:43

think that's the case, But maybe in this community,

Amanda McCune: 00:33:46

you you find someone, and you're able to kinda work things out in a

Amanda McCune: 00:33:50

way where you're supporting each other even if you're not in the same

Amanda McCune: 00:33:54

business necessarily. You're not business partners, but you can still

Amanda McCune: 00:33:58

partner with other, maybe, small business owners, individuals

Amanda McCune: 00:34:02

that can build things going forward. And that that helps too because

Amanda McCune: 00:34:06

then you're still doing your own business, but you don't feel so alone in

Amanda McCune: 00:34:09

that business. It's important to start to realize

Jesse McCune: 00:34:13

that the reality of making a living off

Jesse McCune: 00:34:17

of podcasters is going to be difficult.

Jesse McCune: 00:34:21

Ideally, we're looking for people who

Jesse McCune: 00:34:24

happen to podcast but are other things.

Jesse McCune: 00:34:28

Businesses, coaches, people who

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:32

have a monetary gain from the podcast,

Jesse McCune: 00:34:36

They're going to value what we do better than podcasters

Jesse McCune: 00:34:40

who are struggling to even pay for whatever

Jesse McCune: 00:34:43

they're doing for the show. So like tarot was

Jesse McCune: 00:34:47

saying, trying to figure out who you can work with.

Jesse McCune: 00:34:51

If you try to market yourself to podcasters,

Jesse McCune: 00:34:55

What happens when you see somebody post in a Facebook group saying,

Jesse McCune: 00:34:59

I'm looking for a podcast editor? All the editors come out.

Amanda McCune: 00:35:03

Exactly. Yeah. You see a 100 responses within an

Bryan Entzminger: 00:35:07

hour. Mhmm. But if you go to let's use Tara's

Jesse McCune: 00:35:10

example of marketing. You wanna work with marketers. If you go

Jesse McCune: 00:35:14

into marketing group, you might be the only podcast editor

Jesse McCune: 00:35:18

there. So when people have questions about podcasting, They're going

Jesse McCune: 00:35:22

to go to you. So all of a sudden, you're the big fish in a

Jesse McCune: 00:35:25

small pond as opposed to a fish that you can't even see in the

Jesse McCune: 00:35:29

pond because there's so many of them. So that's one of the biggest things I

Jesse McCune: 00:35:32

found is my best clients aren't podcasters.

Jesse McCune: 00:35:36

They use podcasting as part of their business, whether it's brand awareness,

Jesse McCune: 00:35:41

Lead generation, personal branding, whatever

Jesse McCune: 00:35:44

the case is. So that's another

Jesse McCune: 00:35:48

thing that kind of ties in with what Tara was saying. If we

Jesse McCune: 00:35:51

try to target everybody, we can't really target anybody.

Amanda McCune: 00:35:56

And that direct? I was

Tara Kelly: 00:35:59

gonna ask. And what is your reaction to that, Brian? I can tell from your

Tara Kelly: 00:36:03

expression. You're like No. I mean, that's That's not new news.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:07

Right? It's just a real challenge to find that right

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:10

group of people. I'm Obviously, not opposed to working

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:14

with business owners. I do have a little bit of head junk to work through

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:18

in terms of the coaching space because almost everything I've seen in that space

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:22

is quantity, quantity, quantity. Who cares about quality?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:26

It it's it's your MVP. It doesn't have to be good, and that tends

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:30

to overflow. And so my experience has been it's really hard to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:34

find somebody who cares as much about quality as they're going

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:38

to expect you to care about the quality of their show, that makes sense.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:41

I don't like being in the position where I care more about the client's show

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:45

than they do. That to me is very uncomfortable, So I wanna know that they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:49

do more, and most of what I've seen isn't that. That doesn't mean

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:53

it's not out there. Maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong groups. Well, that's

Jesse McCune: 00:36:56

where really qualifying your client your prospects really

Jesse McCune: 00:37:00

comes in. The more you can narrow that down, you can

Jesse McCune: 00:37:04

focus your copy. You can make it clear to them if

Jesse McCune: 00:37:07

you're the type that doesn't care about anything. You're looking for an MVP

Jesse McCune: 00:37:11

product. I'm not the person for you. You can make it

Jesse McCune: 00:37:15

clear. Like you were saying earlier, I wanna work with the people

Jesse McCune: 00:37:18

who take pride in their show. They want the best, and they're

Jesse McCune: 00:37:22

willing to pay for that. You use your website to communicate

Jesse McCune: 00:37:26

that, and that helps kind of weed out

Jesse McCune: 00:37:29

those tire kickers or the people that just want Fast

Jesse McCune: 00:37:33

turnaround, large quantities regardless of how it

Jesse McCune: 00:37:37

sounds. I'm taking notes as you should.

Tara Kelly: 00:37:41

What podcast do you really love listening to? What are your top 3 that

Tara Kelly: 00:37:45

you don't miss? So currently And it's not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:48

because of the quality of the show. But currently, the podcast 2 point o

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:52

show, I catch that one pretty religiously, Pod News Daily,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:56

And then there's a couple others that are kind of focused in that same

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:00

vein. But right now, because I don't have a commute and because I've

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:03

been fairly busy, my listening is way down from what it used to be. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:07

there are other shows that used to be in that queue that were more for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:10

enjoyment rather than just staying up to date that have kinda fallen by

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:13

the wayside. So I don't really have one where I go like, that's my pleasure

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:17

listen. Well, what was your pleasure listen? I'm trying to think because it's been a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:20

bit there there were some that kinda funny that I enjoyed. I'm not really thinking

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:23

about those. I think probably from a quality standpoint and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:27

learning stuff, I really enjoyed 20,000 hertz, Which is, like, super

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:30

off the chain from a quality standpoint. Most of the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:34

other scripted shows really kind of, I don't enjoy them,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:38

but that was one where I was like, I really like what they've done here.

Tara Kelly: 00:38:41

Do you enjoy more talk like, interview style type

Tara Kelly: 00:38:45

shows where it's like this, Just talking back and forth, that's nothing

Tara Kelly: 00:38:48

that's scripted? I tend to. Yeah. If I'm gonna do something scripted, it's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:52

probably gonna be streaming video or something like that. For

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:55

podcasting for me, I tend to like it being that more raw

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:59

experience. Not no shade on the audio dramas or anything. It's just

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:03

If I'm gonna do a drama, it's gonna be something where I'm gonna sit down

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:06

and watch it so that it's actually taking my attention. If I'm

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:09

listening to a podcast, it's because I'm driving or doing something else.

Amanda McCune: 00:39:13

Mhmm. Are those the kinds of podcast that you prefer producing?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:17

The interviews? Absolutely. Interviews, monologues, panel discussions,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:21

I love those. I've not really done much in the actually, I don't know

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:25

that I've done anything in the scripted space yet. Not that I'm opposed to it,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:28

but that's not really what my skill set is. At least from my perspective, I've

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:32

gotten really good at the the audio repair, the mix and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:35

master, and the straight through linear edit. I don't Tend

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:39

to do story edits. It's just not a skill set that I've really spent much

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:43

time with, and honestly, I've never had a client with a budget that could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:46

support me going through and Mhmm. Mapping out their show and then figuring out what

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:50

to cut because that's gonna be multiples of what I currently

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:53

charge. I don't know how many, but it's not gonna be just 1 multiple.

Tara Kelly: 00:39:57

Understandable. So I haven't heard of 20,000 hertz. What is it

Tara Kelly: 00:40:01

about? It's about sound. I I know it sounds

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:04

ridiculous. It's a it's put out by a sound design company,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:08

and they tend to go through weird things about sound. The one that I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:12

remember was The people that do voice overs for subways,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:15

I really enjoyed that one. That's kind of a ridiculous topic, but it was

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:19

really well done, and I enjoyed it. I don't enjoy the ads. I realized

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:23

I gotta pay for the show, but, man, 3 minute breaks for paid

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:27

ads, I'll skip that every day. So it sounds like you are just about

Tara Kelly: 00:40:30

as obsessed with sound as Jesse, and I don't think I've met anyone

Tara Kelly: 00:40:34

as obsessed with sound as Jesse. Like, he will hear things in

Tara Kelly: 00:40:38

music And in TV shows and just about

Tara Kelly: 00:40:42

anything. He'll he'll tell me the frequencies in my voice, like, where my

Tara Kelly: 00:40:45

voice falls to a point where I'm like, I don't hear that. What are you

Tara Kelly: 00:40:49

talking about? He's like, you can't hear that? No. I can't hear

Tara Kelly: 00:40:53

that. Yeah. I have issues. They're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:56

similar to Jesse's, probably. My wife still doesn't know what I mean when I say,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:00

yeah. I can hear the tube saturation in that one, but That's okay.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:04

Shouldn't have to. I mean, yeah, you both have that

Tara Kelly: 00:41:08

similarity where it's really import that sound experience

Tara Kelly: 00:41:13

is really important to what you do every day. You put a lot of effort

Tara Kelly: 00:41:16

and love into that. So I think, again, Really bringing

Tara Kelly: 00:41:20

that out. And, again, I haven't I know I went to your website a long

Tara Kelly: 00:41:23

time ago. I haven't been to it recently. Talking about that

Tara Kelly: 00:41:27

more specifically, like, let that Love of sound

Tara Kelly: 00:41:30

and the experience that you wanna give others, the audio

Tara Kelly: 00:41:34

experience. Let that shine through and talk

Tara Kelly: 00:41:38

about it. Share your thoughts on it. Share the why. Get people to

Tara Kelly: 00:41:41

care about it. Tell your story about it. Because I think you

Tara Kelly: 00:41:45

know, granted, if we're using a bunch of Technical terms, and

Tara Kelly: 00:41:49

we're talking about I'm not even gonna try to use sound design terms.

Tara Kelly: 00:41:52

But if we're throwing a bunch of that out, Yeah. You might attract

Tara Kelly: 00:41:56

audiophiles. You might attract people like you. But if you can find a

Tara Kelly: 00:42:00

way to talk about what you do in a way that I could understand it

Tara Kelly: 00:42:03

and relate to it or Amanda and put that out

Tara Kelly: 00:42:07

there, I think, again, that's that can really help. You know, just thinking through

Tara Kelly: 00:42:11

really unique ways you can communicate and do what you love and

Tara Kelly: 00:42:15

put that out there in a way that's not forced. You're not writing those blogs

Tara Kelly: 00:42:18

every month to talk about this or that. Another way

Tara Kelly: 00:42:22

it's helpful to know who you wanna work with is you can actually

Tara Kelly: 00:42:26

talk about those topics that they care about. So using

Tara Kelly: 00:42:30

the example of marketers again. Marketers, they care about

Tara Kelly: 00:42:33

conversion rates and open rates on email and what

Tara Kelly: 00:42:37

What the latest thing with Google is and, you know,

Tara Kelly: 00:42:40

basically, the latest compliance we have to go after, and

Tara Kelly: 00:42:44

and we have to add these records to our, you know, business. Email

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:48

thing? Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to that.

Tara Kelly: 00:42:52

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because the it is. Like, life in marketing

Tara Kelly: 00:42:56

is just filled with updates and keeping up with Technology

Tara Kelly: 00:43:00

and keeping up with what Google is doing and what the latest,

Tara Kelly: 00:43:04

you know, best practices are for our website and how we send

Tara Kelly: 00:43:08

emails and how we keep data. It goes on and

Tara Kelly: 00:43:11

on, and most marketers are just running around going, I don't

Tara Kelly: 00:43:15

have time for this, and now they want me to start a podcast. Are You're

Tara Kelly: 00:43:18

kidding me. I don't have time. Help me.

Tara Kelly: 00:43:22

So, you know, if you were interested, for example, in working with marketers,

Tara Kelly: 00:43:26

you might start Thinking through, okay, how can I help these poor people?

Tara Kelly: 00:43:30

How can I make their day a little bit easier talking about some of

Tara Kelly: 00:43:34

these topics? So, again, like, when you're thinking about

Tara Kelly: 00:43:38

who you wanna work with or if there are some industries that you feel like

Tara Kelly: 00:43:42

you can contribute to meaningfully, That's, again, a really good

Tara Kelly: 00:43:46

place to start. And we don't have to get it right the 1st

Jesse McCune: 00:43:49

time. This is all an ongoing iterative iterative

Jesse McCune: 00:43:53

process. What matters is starting

Jesse McCune: 00:43:57

somewhere, seeing what works, and adapt as we

Jesse McCune: 00:44:00

go. I have a question for you, and it it's My stuff is always

Amanda McCune: 00:44:04

the boring stuff. Right? It's like the business y stuff. It's the that's what nobody

Amanda McCune: 00:44:08

ever wants to talk about. But So you said said that you

Amanda McCune: 00:44:12

can allocate maybe 10 hours a week to your business,

Amanda McCune: 00:44:16

but you haven't as much because you're you've lost these clients. Are

Amanda McCune: 00:44:20

you still spending 10 hours on your business? Like, the time that you

Amanda McCune: 00:44:23

used to spend on client work, are you using that for your marketing,

Amanda McCune: 00:44:27

for your other things like, time management

Amanda McCune: 00:44:31

becomes a really unpopular thing, but a very

Amanda McCune: 00:44:35

necessary thing, especially, I think one of the hardest things to do is

Amanda McCune: 00:44:38

to manage a full time job and then

Amanda McCune: 00:44:42

try to build a a business in your off time Well, you said you also

Amanda McCune: 00:44:46

have a wife and kids, and that's a whole lot of stuff. And you

Amanda McCune: 00:44:50

are 1 person and, you know, same amount of hours in the day.

Amanda McCune: 00:44:53

So it sometimes it becomes almost, like, giving yourself a schedule. Like,

Amanda McCune: 00:44:57

you might only have a few hours of editing to do, but you'd know

Amanda McCune: 00:45:01

Like, are you filling that extra 5 hours then with doing

Amanda McCune: 00:45:05

things that can help you get to where you wanna be on the these next

Amanda McCune: 00:45:08

steps? Or is it more like, well, I don't have the work right now, so

Amanda McCune: 00:45:12

I'm gonna go do this other thing? Are are you thinking about

Amanda McCune: 00:45:16

it pretty actively? Or I've been kind of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:19

directionless, which is part of what led to the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:23

conversation that we had a couple of weeks ago. So the answer is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:27

no, But it's not because I haven't wanted to. It's because I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:30

haven't really had anything to put my focus against, and so I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:34

took the position. I'm not gonna sit flounder right now. I'm gonna wait until I've

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:37

got a little bit of direction before I start doing something,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:41

and maybe that's an excuse. I'll Potentially own that as an excuse, but

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:45

it's what I've been doing. So I've been sleeping, in the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:48

mornings instead of producing podcasts before I go to work,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:52

which has been nice, but I'm I'm ready to start doing some

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:56

stuff. I think it's still finding that balance. Sleep is very important. You're gonna

Amanda McCune: 00:45:59

do better work when you you're well rested. You're gonna feel better,

Amanda McCune: 00:46:03

and I think it's it's the hard thing. Right? Everybody's trying to find this

Amanda McCune: 00:46:07

work, life balance. You just happen to have 2 works. You have

Amanda McCune: 00:46:11

your full time work, and you have the work that you're passionate about, and you

Amanda McCune: 00:46:14

want to make your full time work, but you have to like, if if you

Amanda McCune: 00:46:18

were to not have your full time job, Suddenly, you have, what,

Amanda McCune: 00:46:21

40, 50 extra hours in the week whether you commute or not. Like, there's a

Amanda McCune: 00:46:25

lot of time that is spent that you could then invest

Amanda McCune: 00:46:29

into marketing and all of these other things, but then you don't have the

Amanda McCune: 00:46:33

income to make you comfortable. It's that you know, it's

Amanda McCune: 00:46:37

And everybody has their different threshold of when it's time to make that leap

Amanda McCune: 00:46:41

of, okay. I'm I'm getting close, and I know that if I had more

Amanda McCune: 00:46:45

time, then I could get to that next step in my journey, but that

Amanda McCune: 00:46:48

next step requires letting go of the comfort and the security. And that's not what

Amanda McCune: 00:46:52

I'm telling you to do by any means. I'm not advising ever anybody

Amanda McCune: 00:46:56

to take that leap before they're ready because it you know, it

Amanda McCune: 00:47:00

can be scary. It can be very exciting and and fulfilling and all of that,

Amanda McCune: 00:47:03

but it's Do you have a lot of the things like, is

Amanda McCune: 00:47:07

it all in your head mostly? Do you think about it a lot, but there's

Amanda McCune: 00:47:10

not really like, I know you're taking notes now, but do you have any

Amanda McCune: 00:47:13

Anything kind of written down just to get it out of your head of these

Amanda McCune: 00:47:16

are the things I wanna do. These are things I need to do so you

Amanda McCune: 00:47:19

can kind of get them organized in a way. Sometimes if you're a

Amanda McCune: 00:47:23

visual person, just even seeing a bunch of things on a

Amanda McCune: 00:47:27

maybe not pen and paper, but sometimes that works or Whatever

Amanda McCune: 00:47:30

app you like to write or draw things in, but just to kinda get it

Amanda McCune: 00:47:34

all out of your head. Because I think a lot of times, people,

Amanda McCune: 00:47:38

Creatives, especially, but, you know, a lot of people, we just we think a

Amanda McCune: 00:47:41

lot, and it it seems like, oh, well, no. I I know all the things

Amanda McCune: 00:47:45

that I need to know. It's all in my head. But once you actually start

Amanda McCune: 00:47:47

writing it down or typing it out or however it is, then suddenly

Amanda McCune: 00:47:51

you realize, like, Okay. Yeah. I I I have some things to work

Amanda McCune: 00:47:55

with here. And if I started at this point and then okay. Now I have

Amanda McCune: 00:47:59

I can start building a strategy. Or if you don't like the word strategy, just

Amanda McCune: 00:48:03

a, you know, a step by step a to do a fancy to do list,

Amanda McCune: 00:48:06

if you will. Because sometimes words like strategy will throw somebody off. Like, no.

Amanda McCune: 00:48:10

I I don't I don't wanna be strategic. I wanna be creative.

Amanda McCune: 00:48:14

But that's the the other part about the running the business is You get

Amanda McCune: 00:48:18

to do all the creative things, but, unfortunately, it does require a lot of

Amanda McCune: 00:48:21

the this kind of stuff. Yeah. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:25

I I would say, Currently, no. Not a lot written

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:28

down. All the all the existing production processes, those are all

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:32

written down. I can do those from memory, but, yeah, those are all written down,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:36

of course. The marketing and some of this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:39

stuff, no. No. It's not. Don't have a good reason why except I've

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:43

not done it, I guess. I think you're good at you have the production processes

Amanda McCune: 00:48:47

down because that's what you like to do. And that's, I mean, the stuff that

Amanda McCune: 00:48:50

you don't wanna do, you're gonna intentionally put your focus on that because it's not

Amanda McCune: 00:48:54

fun. It's like yeah. I always use bookkeeping as a thing. Nobody

Amanda McCune: 00:48:58

wants to do bookkeeping. Keeping. Nobody is, like, thinking, I can't wait to get home

Amanda McCune: 00:49:01

tonight and go dig into my accounts receivables. It's just not

Amanda McCune: 00:49:05

really well, I there are probably people out there who do like that. I shouldn't

Amanda McCune: 00:49:09

say nobody, but in the creative world, I have,

Amanda McCune: 00:49:12

not met many of them. It's usually the first thing that people outsource,

Amanda McCune: 00:49:17

But it is something to think about too that and I forget. You'd mentioned say,

Amanda McCune: 00:49:20

like, again, we're back to blogs, and Jesse's, for whatever reason, not going to write

Amanda McCune: 00:49:24

your blogs, And that's what you think that you need to do. There

Amanda McCune: 00:49:28

is that again, with it's the value of time and kinda considering it.

Amanda McCune: 00:49:32

It's you can do it yourself, But if it it takes all the joy out

Amanda McCune: 00:49:35

of your world to think, I have to sit here, and I have to write

Amanda McCune: 00:49:38

this thing, how much time are you spending on it

Amanda McCune: 00:49:42

Versus if you hired somebody who loves to write blogs

Amanda McCune: 00:49:45

or if it's bookkeeping, how much you know, you might spend

Amanda McCune: 00:49:49

3, 4 hours doing this stuff that you don't enjoy doing is not making you

Amanda McCune: 00:49:53

happy at all. You could pay somebody else, and, yes, that's an expense,

Amanda McCune: 00:49:57

But that person who loves doing books might be able to do

Amanda McCune: 00:50:01

that 3 or 4 hours of your work in 1 hour. And

Amanda McCune: 00:50:05

so it's It's just but it frees up 4 hours of your time to then

Amanda McCune: 00:50:08

dedicate to something that will make you happier or maybe

Amanda McCune: 00:50:12

bring more value back to you. Like, maybe it's and maybe it is.

Amanda McCune: 00:50:16

It's finding these groups that you wanna hang out in, and then you spend that

Amanda McCune: 00:50:19

extra 3 or 4 hours interacting with the people you wanna be talking

Amanda McCune: 00:50:23

to, and then that could lead to some work. So I'm always a

Amanda McCune: 00:50:27

big fan of keep your expenses low. But if you're

Amanda McCune: 00:50:30

spending a lot of time doing something that you hate or are not good at,

Amanda McCune: 00:50:34

like, those are the 2 things that you outsource. If you don't like doing it

Amanda McCune: 00:50:36

or you're not good at it or maybe not good at. You're just

Amanda McCune: 00:50:40

maybe less efficient than others at. We'll we'll put it that

Amanda McCune: 00:50:43

way. But sometimes that's a way,

Amanda McCune: 00:50:47

Especially when you have such limited time to be able to

Amanda McCune: 00:50:51

you are spending a little bit, but it's kind of an investment that you

Amanda McCune: 00:50:54

can hopefully then because, you know, if you take that 3 hours and then you

Amanda McCune: 00:50:58

get a new client, now it just it paid for that, you know,

Amanda McCune: 00:51:01

BlogBryder bookkeeper person or people. And they're

Jesse McCune: 00:51:05

all finished. Thank you. I've got one little thing, and then I know we've gotta

Jesse McCune: 00:51:09

wrap it up. But, essentially, to get where you're going, you need to

Jesse McCune: 00:51:12

get started. Every journey is 1 step at a time. If we

Jesse McCune: 00:51:16

don't take that 1st step, we're never going to get anywhere. We

Jesse McCune: 00:51:20

can't let the analysis paralysis Getting our

Jesse McCune: 00:51:23

way. Thank you. Thank you all. With that, we do need to go ahead and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:27

wrap it up because we committed to an hour, and we like to be people

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:30

of our word. But, also, I have a suspicion that some of the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:34

people either watching live or catching the the replay or the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:37

podcast later might like what they hear and might wanna take a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:41

similar step for themselves. You guys did this for us for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:45

free, which was very generous and very kind. But if somebody wants to be part

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:48

of the community, who should I ask about how they can do that? Tara, you're

Jesse McCune: 00:51:52

kind of handling what we're working on right now.

Tara Kelly: 00:51:56

Yeah. So I would love to talk to people and help them out. You can

Tara Kelly: 00:52:00

reach me at tanziestr.com

Tara Kelly: 00:52:03

and schedule a call with me. And we're actually

Jesse McCune: 00:52:07

working on packages aimed at creatives

Jesse McCune: 00:52:11

to help Them solve the problems they're having like

Jesse McCune: 00:52:14

this. Which I guess made this the perfect time for us to all get together

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:18

and talk about this and The right time for me to have problems. So, everybody,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:21

you're welcome. With that, we're gonna go ahead and say goodbye. If you joined us

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:25

live, we're super glad that you were here. If you caught the replay or the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:28

podcast later, Glad that you could do that. So I'm Brian. I'm at top

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:32

tier audio .com. And, then on this side is

Jennifer Longworth: 00:52:35

Jennifer Longworth, Bourbon and Barrel podcasting.com. Amanda

Amanda McCune: 00:52:39

Annette, you can find me at aardvarkgirl.com. That's 2 a's in

Amanda McCune: 00:52:43

aardvark. Jesse, you can find me at

Jesse McCune: 00:52:46

Tansieaster Audio or Tanziaster Academy. Tara,

Tara Kelly: 00:52:50

you can find me at tanziaster.com. And unable to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:54

join us tonight, we're Daniel Abendroth at rothmedia.audio,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:52:58

and Carrie, who you can find at carrie.land.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:53:01

I should remember that because it's so much fun to say, but carrie.land. Thank you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:53:05

everybody for joining us, and we'll see you next week. And I've gotta click a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:53:08

button, so we'll see if I can do that. Bye. Bye.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:53:16

So How much is that?